# Another "kid gets a hold of parents loaded gun" thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727 "2010-05-25T18:32:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/281 "2010-06-04T20:17:07Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > I dont pay so much attention to AK variants in the USA. It’s an obvious and giant gap in my firearms knowledge… > > Thanks for the info guys. I don’t usually pay attention to AK-47s, but there used to be some pretty scary rednecks who would ostentatiously shoot those things against a backstop right next to where I used to play airsoft, while making snide comments about “toy guns” and drinking too much (defined as “drinking anything alcoholic at all while holding a goddamn rifle with safety off in your other hand”) In an effort to maybe not get accidentally shot by a moron, I tried talking to them about the guns (on the grounds that more talking meant fewer live rounds), at which point I learned the names of a few manufacturers of AK clones. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/282 "2010-06-04T21:32:03Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > ?? Now come on, that’s just being dishonest. It was a rhetorical question. If you read the entire post and my other posts on here you’d know that I’ve never said guns should be out-right banned or be restricted to the government. My stance has been consistant: Guns should be expensive, a PITA to get, and a PITA to keep. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/283 "2010-06-04T22:31:59Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > And what else is a gun good for, other than shooting? > Sure, people need protecting and some use it for sports. At least for myself, that a gun can be used for protection is a side benifit to the sporting aspect. I suspect that many, if not most gun owners are like me. A side benifit of enjoying them for sport increases my knowledge, awareness and safety with them. My Wife is a triathlete. She uses her bike for sports. People can call her $6000 Guru tri-bike a toy, but I would disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/284 "2010-06-05T00:35:49Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Now come on, that’s just being dishonest. It was a rhetorical question. If you read the entire post and my other posts on here you’d know that I’ve never said guns should be out-right banned or be restricted to the government. > > My stance has been consistant: Guns should be expensive, a PITA to get, and a PITA to keep. But that depends on just what exactly you mean. If you mean that to own a gun someone should demonstrate a high level of personal responsibility, and stringent safeguards be put in place against the misuse of firearms, few are going to argue with that. But if you mean that an otherwise qualified person should be \*\*punished \*\*with artificially added expense and bureaucratic red tape for trying to acquire a gun in order to discourage as many people as possible from making the effort, then your stance is fundamentally anti-gun. Is the fundamental purpose behind the measures you propose to make sure that people own guns as responsibly as possible, or for the fewest number of people to own guns? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/285 "2010-06-05T01:17:45Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I actually am vaguely annoyed by this statement, given that it’s not commonly understood that blank rounds (like fired from some starter pistols) are potentially lethal at short range. For that matter, a flare gun will probably hurt whatever you’re pointing it at pretty badly. > > Frankly, I’d like them to be treated like any other gun and not treated as trivial because they weren’t purpose-built for putting holes in various classes of object. I never said not to. But those are not intended to be pointed _at_ things and fired. Which was the original question. They are intended to be pointed away from things and fired. (And the line thrower differs from my Mossberg 500 only in that the barrel has been swapped out.) ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/286 "2010-06-05T02:03:58Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > But if you mean that an otherwise qualified person should be \*\*punished \*\*with artificially added expense and bureaucratic red tape for trying to acquire a gun in order to discourage as many people as possible from making the effort, then your stance is fundamentally anti-gun. Is the fundamental purpose behind the measures you propose to make sure that people own guns as responsibly as possible, or for the fewest number of people to own guns? He’s already said this is his objective–basically, for whatever reason, he thinks only rich people should own guns. I’m sure I could pretty easily think of more reprehensible stances, sure, but that’s pretty reprehensible. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/287 "2010-06-05T05:07:44Z")
Trying to force someone to be more responsible by making them spend more money does not work. Early education is the best bet. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/288 "2010-06-07T16:27:17Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > My Wife is a triathlete. She uses her bike for sports. People can call her $6000 Guru tri-bike a toy, but I would disagree. An expensive, professional toy is still a toy. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/289 "2010-06-07T17:35:37Z")
On the other hand, if you use fifty dollar bike to move troops, it’s not a toy. At’s about the size of it. It’s either a tool: something used to make a livelihood, or it’s a toy: something for recreation, no matter how intense or beneficial. He who dies with the most toys wins. Me, I got over 40 different Optimus Primes. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/290 "2010-06-07T18:12:35Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > An expensive, professional toy is still a toy. I don’t see the point in differentiating between “tool used for hobby” and “toy” unless the intent is to belittle by labeling it with the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/291 "2010-06-07T21:15:32Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I don’t see the point in differentiating between “tool used for hobby” and “toy” unless the intent is to belittle by labeling it with the latter. A toy is a toy. I don’t see why people need to get all bent out of shape about it. There’s nothing wrong with it being a toy. My custom-built computer is a toy. My crazy toed running shoes are toys. Question is, why do you seem to be getting all out of shape with your gun, used for recreation, being called a toy? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/292 "2010-06-07T21:23:19Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Question is, why do you seem to be getting all out of shape with your gun, used for recreation, being called a toy? I’d say it’s because it discounts the seriousness of the activity. My Wife spent 3 hours in the ER on Friday after falling off her ‘toy’. Calling a racing bike or target rifle a toy is flippant. AS used in this thread, ‘toy’ is intended to be derogatory and you know it. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/293 "2010-06-07T21:52:07Z")
And I say: get over yourselves. I could trip on my cousin’s Hotwheels. Does that mean they’re not toys, too? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/294 "2010-06-07T22:00:18Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > And I say: get over yourselves. > > I could trip on my cousin’s Hotwheels. Does that mean they’re not toys, too? :rolleyes: Its the connotation that “toy” has, as i explained up thread. It’s a recreational object, but not a toy. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/295 "2010-06-07T22:48:48Z")
The way ‘toy’ has been used in this thread, it is just a transparent attempt to trivialize recreational shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/296 "2010-06-07T23:31:32Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > A toy is a toy. I don’t see why people need to get all bent out of shape about it. There’s nothing wrong with it being a toy. My custom-built computer is a toy. My crazy toed running shoes are toys. > > Question is, why do you seem to be getting all out of shape with your gun, used for recreation, being called a toy? I would say, to elaborate on other folks’ comments–it’s not calling it a “toy” in a vacuum that’s the problem, it’s that generally when someone calls guns a “toy” they are trying to use that as a rhetorical cheap shot to imply (if not outright argue) that A) I treat my gun flippantly, without the respect/caution a weapon deserves B) My gun has no legitimate uses, and can safely be regulated away C) The fact that I own a gun implies that I’m childlike D) Any/All of the Above ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/297 "2010-06-08T14:37:48Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > It’s a recreational object, but not a toy. And the piece of rubber in my closet is a vibrating stimulatory device, not a sex toy. :rolleyes: Newsflash: “Recreational object” is just a grown-up way of saying “toy.” > [@enipla](#): > > The way ‘toy’ has been used in this thread, it is just a transparent attempt to trivialize recreational shooting. By some people, maybe. But not by me. A toy is a toy is a toy. > [@Zeriel](#): > > A) I treat my gun flippantly, without the respect/caution a weapon deserves > B) My gun has no legitimate uses, and can safely be regulated away > C) The fact that I own a gun implies that I’m childlike > D) Any/All of the Above That may be some people’s intent, but not mine. Please note that I am applying “toy” to anything that people use for recreation–including my own grown-up toys. I’m also happy to create a distinction between guns kept primarily for self-defense (not toy) versus recreational (toy) purposes. I see people objecting to the \*universal application \*of the word toy to items used for recreational purposes (i.e., including but not limited to guns) as just taking themselves too fucking seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/298 "2010-06-08T16:11:26Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I see people objecting to the \*universal application \*of the word toy to items used for recreational purposes (i.e., including but not limited to guns) as just taking themselves too fucking seriously. You see it as us taking ourselves too seriously, we see it as firearms not being taken seriously enough. No matter how you definine it, a firearm has the potential to harm someone, so it shouldn’t be called a toy anymore than a sword or car should – toy has the wrong connotation. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/299 "2010-06-08T16:29:12Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > That may be some people’s intent, but not mine. Please note that I am applying “toy” to anything that people use for recreation–including my own grown-up toys. I’m also happy to create a distinction between guns kept primarily for self-defense (not toy) versus recreational (toy) purposes. > > I see people objecting to the \*universal application \*of the word toy to items used for recreational purposes (i.e., including but not limited to guns) as just taking themselves too fucking seriously. I am in fact generalizing your usage of the term rather than taking you at face value, for which I apologize. I don’t really think I’m taking things too seriously, though, given that it’s far more common on the Dope and elsewhere for my general interpretation of “toy” as derogatory to be accurate. It’s not just with guns, either, but with pretty much all of my myriad geeky hobbies–even by other geeks (I have literally been told by a geocacher I know that my PC used for both video gaming and work-from-home is a “toy”, as in literally he said “why would an adult spend all that money on a toy?”, followed up with “you should get a professional-grade GPS, they’re so useful, best tool I’ve bought in years” and all he does geocache with it. Yet I don’t turn around and say “So you bought this ‘tool’ to play asynchronous hide-and-seek?”) It gets old and I get cranky about it. Sometimes unjustifiably so, like in this instance. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/300 "2010-06-08T16:29:19Z")
I suspect that it also has to do with those of us that started shooting at a young age. DRILLED in to our brains was the term “The gun is NOT a toy”. In other words, this is serious stuff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727.md?page=16)