# Another "kid gets a hold of parents loaded gun" thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727 "2010-05-25T18:32:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/341 "2010-06-11T11:06:29Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > Hey, at least I got Europe… Right!!! Right guys?! They’re both at least in Europe?! ☹ So, Mexico and the US are both the same then, right? It’s all on the same continent, right? Everything that was Communists, is classified as Eastern Europe by westerneres. However, the whole thing is changing… Poland, Czech etc becoming part of the ECC or even the EU, for whatever (un)usefull purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/342 "2010-06-11T13:22:21Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Guns that can only be fired by the legitimate owner, that also **record each time it is fired and provides a GPS of the location** , are the way forward. That’s going to be an awfully big database unless you consolidate entries–I can go through a hundred or more rounds from each of my (two) guns in one trip to the shooting range if I’m practicing for a competition. You also have to consider where the record is going to be stored and what the criteria are for police to access it. Not really opposed in principle, but I see a lot of implementation issues here. Is it a felony to forget to charge my rifle’s battery? What if I’m on a week or longer backwoods hunting trip? > [@Doughbag](#): > > This is what I wrote. > Now, if YOUR shooting range is your backyard, then put it into a secure locker on your premisis. > When you transport it, put it in a locker in your car. This is pretty much what I do now (except that in my car, my long guns are typically trigger locked+action locked rather than lockered, since I only transport them to the range and back) > [@](#): > > Whatever you do, firearms are not safe - you can only make it safer. Whatever smart or smug reply you can give me to that, wont change the fact. And yes, there are other unsafe things we are using every day, but most of the time these things provide a much higher usability than firearms - like electicity, cars, water… the list is endless. I don’t have any disagreement with anything you’ve said here, except to note that objectively everything you’ve listed in the latter part is two orders of magnitude more dangerous in the US (by deaths per year) to match their increased utility. > [@](#): > > Here is a short version of the German gun storage and transportation rules: > …snip… > In comparison to this, the US gun regulation is nothing else but a joke. I would quibble the age requirement from German law (if only because I think that an “use with adult supervision” clause for hunting purposes proves to have very few problems over here). I would disagree sharply with a “transport container” requirement that prevents concealed-carry for self-defense, and I reject the “necessity” requirement in toto (in that I believe self-defense is an unalienable right of free people, and in this day and age a firearm is required for effective self-defense in some places and situations. Let’s agree to disagree rather than hijack this thread, maybe?). Otherwise? It matches up pretty closely with regulations I’ve proposed in numerous gun threads on this board in the past–per-weapon registration, licenses with renewal terms and required proficiency testing, and that testing more stringent for more criminally useful classes of firearm. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/343 "2010-06-11T14:41:39Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > In comparison to this, the US gun regulation is nothing else but a joke. > [Here is a wiki link for Switzerland](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland) I’m a little unsure whether you’re comparing the US to Germany or Switzerland. The latter is in some ways more strict than the US, but in others it makes us look restrictive. They have no 1934 NFA, and as such you can buy things like flamethrowers unrestricted. Even in the gun-hating UK, you can buy silencers without jumping through the hoops that exist in the US, it seems a public noise abatement issue there. > [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Guns that can only be fired by the legitimate owner, that also record each time it is fired and provides a GPS of the location, are the way forward. These will probably start at $2000, and be subject to substantial hardware transfer fees if you need to sell it. Okay, maybe that’s not much different than the sentiments expressed upthread… And will this require a phone call after every time a gun is fired, or does GPS only check for urban areas? Should I arrange all my contract killings at the range? California passed a law awhile back requiring on-the-fly microstamping of cartridge cases in new guns. Cops are of course exempt, don’t know why they can’t have the same thing? The first big problem with this is that the technology apparently _doesn’t work reliably_, yet that doesn’t prohibit passing a law. Also, maybe I don’t know all the small details about it, but I’m no sure why a criminal can’t just pick up empties at the range and leave them about the crime scene. The main problem with these technologies though is that properly-cared for guns are extremely long lasting. My oldest is from 1937 or so and I could get older if I wanted. Some were probably dragged through mud in the Eastern Front for months on end. IOW, a gun that is made today will be around for a long time. A criminal can just buy a used one, while your average joe has to contend with a possibly unreliable biometric, cartridge imprinting handgun. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/344 "2010-06-11T15:24:34Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > That’s going to be an awfully big database unless you consolidate entries–I can go through a hundred or more rounds from each of my (two) guns in one trip to the shooting range if I’m practicing for a competition. You also have to consider where the record is going to be stored and what the criteria are for police to access it. Cool feature - GPS locking of everyshot, the database would be no problem, but impossible to work, due to electronics and outdoor activities, not a good mix in the long run, meaybe in 20 years… also pointless, since criminals will just hack/crack it… allmost anything to do with data is hackable… but still a cool feature. > [@Zeriel](#): > > I would disagree sharply with a “transport container” requirement that prevents concealed-carry for self-defense, and I reject the “necessity” requirement in toto (in that I believe self-defense is an unalienable right of free people, and in this day and age a firearm is required for effective self-defense in some places and situations. _“I believe self-defense is an unalienable right of free people”_ Sure, as I stated before, once guns are available, a person needs one to protect onself. This is also the reason, why the laws are so strict here in relations to firearms. But until this changes, we do not need firearms here, for which I am glad about. > [@Zeriel](#): > > … Let’s agree to disagree rather than hijack this thread, maybe?). Fine with me. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/345 "2010-06-11T16:45:41Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Cool feature - GPS locking of everyshot, the database would be no problem, but impossible to work, due to electronics and outdoor activities, not a good mix in the long run, meaybe in 20 years… also pointless, since criminals will just hack/crack it… allmost anything to do with data is hackable… but still a cool feature. Honestly, I’d love to have something similar to this even as a voluntary thing. I am not particularly afraid of having the police have access to knowing about every shot I fire. The number one criteria for responsible gun ownership, in my opinion, is the ability and will to say “Yes, I take full responsibility for every projectile that leaves the barrel of this firearm”. > [@](#): > > _“I believe self-defense is an unalienable right of free people”_ Sure, as I stated before, once guns are available, a person needs one to protect onself. > This is also the reason, why the laws are so strict here in relations to firearms. But until this changes, we do not need firearms here, for which I am glad about. Culturally and geographically, Europe has a very different firearm situation than North America, in that there’s not nearly as much open space and it’s far more urbanized. Which probably explains why we have relatively more long guns and agitation for ownership over here in the U.S. and Canada, as there’s more need for the ability to deal with dangerous pest animals and more room for recreational shooting/hunting in a less-centralized fashion. Understand–my hometown, only about four-five hours from the biggest metro area on this continent, is the kind of place where we have at least one-two incidents a year of a 300-400lb black bear breaking into someone’s kitchen and raiding the pantry. I spend at most a week or two at my parents’ home there, and I invariably see at least one large predator species in their front yard. That’s not something I’m given to understand is a big part of the European experience–for that matter, I’m also given to understand it’s not as common for people like my folks (who are small-town general store owners making around $30,000/yr each) who own a 16-acre tract of woodland with two acres of lawn. I think it cost my dad less than $1,000 in 1988 since it was a rocky hillside that had already had the valuable older trees selectively logged. Furthermore, if I were to own a handgun (which I am perpetually considering), my first purchase would be a large-frame revolver for ease of carrying in bear country–I do a lot of hiking, and I have personally had close encounters (defined as “within 25 feet”) with three species of poisonous snake, black bear, coyote, and bobcat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727.md?page=17)