# Another "kid gets a hold of parents loaded gun" thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727 "2010-05-25T18:32:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/41 "2010-05-26T14:41:04Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > OK, fair enough. I assume all .22s were a certain type. My bad. > > I assumed it was a typical shot gun that people may have for hunting and other more mainstream recreational uses, as opposed to assault weapons which, IMHO, as harder to justify owning. Others disagree with that statement, but that was why I even said it. That it’s more typical for random people to have hunting rifles than assault rifles. Okay, briefly, because some guys get impolite about this: “assault weapon” is a legal term only, and means a gun with military-style fittings. Not really deadlier in any way than a standard hunting rifle, just has things like folding stock, scope or silencer attachment points, etc. “shot gun” is a long gun that fires biggish plastic shells full (usually) of little-to-medium-sized metal pellets. Good for hunting deer or anything smaller. “assault rifle” means more than one bullet per trigger pull. not generally legal, but can in fact be chambered in .22 just like a… “rifle”, which is a long gun, generally anything that isn’t a “shotgun” is a “rifle”. There is a wide variety of rifles, of which a .22 is probably the smallest and least deadly round–most people use .22 for target shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/42 "2010-05-26T14:46:59Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > And I don’t know about the past but in the last year or two **Airman Doors** has been quite reasonable, calm, and intelligent in his gun thread postings. How he doesn’t knee-jerk respond all the time I don’t know. Years of practice. What does a knee-jerk reaction get you except for more of the same? It’s important to maintain a level head when discussing this lest you give people confirmation for their beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/43 "2010-05-26T14:57:58Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Years of practice. What does a knee-jerk reaction get you except for more of the same? It’s important to maintain a level head when discussing this lest you give people confirmation for their beliefs. I was complimenting you, dear. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/44 "2010-05-26T15:02:07Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Now, do I advocate gun education in schools? I would, but I am cognizant that some parents do not want their kids to be exposed to that so I certainly would not mandate it for that reason. Yeah, well, some parents also don’t want their kids immunized or taught sex ed. Tough shit. I’d never even thought about this before, but now that you’ve brought it up, I think that gun safety would be a great thing to teach in schools. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/45 "2010-05-26T15:05:42Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Ditto. Best thing I’ve ever seen was my uncle’s method–any of his kids (from the point of first language skills) could ask to see his guns at any time, and he’d go over all the safety procedures to the letter, check it was unloaded, etc, and go to a safe backstop anyway, then let the kid hold it and ask questions, gently but firmly correcting when the kid did something wrong like pointing it in an unsafe direction. > > The result? His kids perceived guns as a pretty boring, mundane thing, and didn’t fuck around with them. This. This is what I did with my kids, and it worked exceptionally well. If friends were over and it got mentioned in conversation about hunting or whatever, and the other kid was, “Wow, your dad has GUNS??” my kids’ response was typically, “Yeah - let’s go play on the trampoline…” or whatever. The response of my kids was similar to how they’d respond if the kid had asked if we had mayonnaise in the refrigerator. Of course, I was a 4H shotgun instructor, and CCA licensed, so I was pretty versed in safety, and instilled that into my kids. We even had neighbors bring their kids over for safety demonstrations. It was very cool to see the recognition dawn on these kids that it’s a tool, not a monster. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/46 "2010-05-26T15:23:50Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > And now all the gun loving wingnuts that we had in the last thread will come out and start telling us how there is absolutely no risk associated with firearms, none whatsoever. But before that happens, someone will come into the thread to make a declarative well-poisoning. ~ All safes and lockers aside, free, simple cable-type gun locks are often available from places such as police departments and public safety offices. Each year at a Chili Fest we go to the police have a booth where one of the things they hand out are literally handfulls of free gun locks (I’ve got a small pile of them…somewhere). ~ Personally, between the two of us Fierra and I have a large number of guns, but only 4 are loaded; the rest have the ammunition locked up. But then the last time someone under the age of 18 was in our house for any reason was…let me think, sometime in the 1990’s? If things were different, so would our storage requirements be. I am always careful with where I leave my handbag, which has my Glock in it, in public; suffice to say it never leaves my shoulder, grip, or lap. But since I typically carry unchambered even if Super Toddler steals my bag, takes my Glock, puts it to his head and pulls the trigger, nothing’s going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/47 "2010-05-26T15:31:55Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > No, I don’t. That thread was also about having a firearm in a house with children. > Those quotes specifically stated that firearm posed zero risks to the \*occupants \*of the house, after it was noted that the occupants included children. Actually, that’s not true - they said zero _harm_ in the quotes you gave. Harm is not equal to risk. A bottle of mercury sealed hermetically represents zero harm; it does not represent zero risk. > [@](#): > > And the gun nuts still kept saying that it presented zero risk to anybody at all. One of them even went so far as to say that it was physically impossible for him to fall asleep and have a child find his concealed handgun. Well if they spoke in absolutes like that then they were wrong. Perhaps you should start a thread talking to them about it. > [@](#): > > What you don’t want to do of course is have to admit that these nutters are on your side in this debate. I can understand that, but unfortunately for you they are. Trying to disown them by pretending they never said that a gun in a home with a child presented zero risk isn’t going to work. They did say that, in black and white, and I provided the quotes. Your quotes said “harm” and not “risk”. And if he must “admit” and not “disown” that those nuts are on his side in the debate, which nuts are your going to admit and not disown are on your side in the debate? Should I prepare a list? Seriously, Blake, you have a good, no, excellent reputation for fact and logic when I’ve read your threads over the years. You’re one of those posters whose threads I bother to read in GQ. But I think you might be starting off on the wrong foot a bit here. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/48 "2010-05-26T15:31:57Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I was complimenting you, dear. I know. I guess a thank you would have sufficed. So thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/49 "2010-05-26T15:36:45Z")
Huh. I never even thought about gun classes in schools. Not a bad idea - I wonder if you could make it an elective? It seems a much smarter idea than this terror of guns right now in school. It would have to be demonstrated how dangerous guns can be, of course - I don’t want any kids going around thinking that guns are only toys and fun. But the fact is, there is a coolness and fun factor to guns, and in safe environments why not take advantage of it? Generally I am neutral on the gun issue, but fuck, they are here to stay. Cat’s long since out of the bag. We need to deal with them, not shut our eyes and ears and pretend they don’t exist. As for legislation, unfortunately while we may be able to stop mentally ill people from getting guns, I don’t think there is any way to stop the congenitally stupid from getting them. I think that’s a lost battle. ☹ I just think the gun education is going all the wrong way, as has been said here. The more you put something out of reach on a pedestal, the more the kiddies want to play with it. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/50 "2010-05-26T15:51:15Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Huh. I never even thought about gun classes in schools. Not a bad idea - I wonder if you could make it an elective? IMO, make it opt-out. Everyone takes it unless your parent signs some kind of form to pull you out of class. > [@](#): > > As for legislation, unfortunately while we may be able to stop mentally ill people from getting guns, I don’t think there is any way to stop the congenitally stupid from getting them. People stupid enough to leave loaded guns where their children can get them end up with fewer offspring who reach the age where they can reproduce in turn. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/51 "2010-05-26T15:53:22Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > I refuse to have a gun in my house because I believe that the likelyhood of me using it for good is mitigated by the chance it might be used for evil. Statistically, you are more likely to have a member of your household harmed if you have a pool. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/52 "2010-05-26T15:54:42Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Huh. I never even thought about gun classes in schools. Not a bad idea - I wonder if you could make it an elective? It seems a much smarter idea than this terror of guns right now in school. > > It would have to be demonstrated how dangerous guns can be, of course - I don’t want any kids going around thinking that guns are only toys and fun. But the fact is, there is a coolness and fun factor to guns, and in safe environments why not take advantage of it? Out my way in PA, nearly every high school has evening elective classes at least once a year for 12-and-ups teaching the state Hunter Safety course. That’s about the extent of it, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/53 "2010-05-26T15:56:07Z")
what is the potential/likely penalty for the parent in the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/54 "2010-05-26T15:57:50Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Statistically, you are more likely to have a member of your household harmed if you have a pool. Different classes of potential harm. You aren’t going to mistake your wife for a burglar and drag the pool into your bedroom to drown her. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/55 "2010-05-26T15:58:43Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Okay, briefly, because some guys get impolite about this: > > “assault weapon” is a legal term only, and means a gun with military-style fittings. Not really deadlier in any way than a standard hunting rifle, just has things like folding stock, scope or silencer attachment points, etc. > > “shot gun” is a long gun that fires biggish plastic shells full (usually) of little-to-medium-sized metal pellets. Good for hunting deer or anything smaller. > > “assault rifle” means more than one bullet per trigger pull. not generally legal, but can in fact be chambered in .22 just like a… > > “rifle”, which is a long gun, generally anything that isn’t a “shotgun” is a “rifle”. There is a wide variety of rifles, of which a .22 is probably the smallest and least deadly round–most people use .22 for target shooting. Thanks! I appreciate the effort to educate! ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/56 "2010-05-26T16:06:22Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Huh. I never even thought about gun classes in schools. Not a bad idea - I wonder if you could make it an elective? It seems a much smarter idea than this terror of guns right now in school. > > It would have to be demonstrated how dangerous guns can be, of course - I don’t want any kids going around thinking that guns are only toys and fun. But the fact is, there is a coolness and fun factor to guns, and in safe environments why not take advantage of it? > > Generally I am neutral on the gun issue, but fuck, they are here to stay. Cat’s long since out of the bag. We need to deal with them, not shut our eyes and ears and pretend they don’t exist. > > As for legislation, unfortunately while we may be able to stop mentally ill people from getting guns, I don’t think there is any way to stop the congenitally stupid from getting them. I think that’s a lost battle. ☹ I just think the gun education is going all the wrong way, as has been said here. The more you put something out of reach on a pedestal, the more the kiddies want to play with it. The NRA does something called the Eddie Eagle program, which does go to schools if they are invited. No guns are brought to the school, no incompetent DEA agents are involved, it’s straight education on what to do if you find a gun. I think that schools could do the same thing at negligible cost. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/57 "2010-05-26T16:10:53Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > The NRA does something called the Eddie Eagle program, which does go to schools if they are invited. No guns are brought to the school, no incompetent DEA agents are involved, it’s straight education on what to do if you find a gun. I think that schools could do the same thing at negligible cost. I admit to a total knee-jerky reaction when it comes to the NRA. I am not sure I’d want a bunch of huge gun proponents - sometimes, it seems, to the point of insanity - handling it. Really I’d like some third party middle ground, but that’s not likely to happen. It would be best if the schools were to do it, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/58 "2010-05-26T16:13:54Z")
Does D.A.R.E. still exist? It could be incorpoated into a program like that. Or into a health class. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/59 "2010-05-26T16:14:03Z")
Airman Doors made a good point upthread, but it could be expanded somewhat by pointing the finger of blame at a media which absolutely glorifies and basks in reckless and criminal gun use. But before one can cast all the blame on gangsta rappers and their criminal trash culture, I can point to my uncle who, at about age 8, took my grandfather’s gun and was practicing quick-draws - like his heroes, cowboys, did - and shot a hole in the ceiling of the bedroom. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/60 "2010-05-26T16:20:41Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I admit to a total knee-jerky reaction when it comes to the NRA. I am not sure I’d want a bunch of huge gun proponents - sometimes, it seems, to the point of insanity - handling it. Really I’d like some third party middle ground, but that’s not likely to happen. > > It would be best if the schools were to do it, yes. FWIW I’ve sat in on an “Eddie Eagle” demonstration, and if anything I found it to be somewhat anti-gun. The NRA instructors were very clear and unambiguous about the danger of guns, they did not even once sell up hunting or target shooting; it simply didn’t enter into the equation. The message was almost pounded into the kids - “don’t touch - run away - tell an adult.” I spoke to the folks running the program afterwards and commented that they showed no positive gun use, and the man I spoke to got very serious, and said (words to the effect of) “The single best PR the NRA can have is fewer kids being injured or killed in accidents. My single most important goal with the NRA is to make sure no kid ever gets hurt picking up a gun and having an accident.” And that made a lot of sense - it’s in the NRA’s best interest to help stop the accidents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727.md?page=4)