# Another Liberals and the Non-GOP Right Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 16, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660 "2012-01-16T03:19:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/21 "2012-01-19T05:16:51Z")
Single payer universal health care is the number 1 political issue in my opinion. The only serious problem I have with the hypothetical candidate is his anti-abortion stance, but it’s not a big enough issue to outbalance his favoring UHC. More people in the USA go bankrupt due to medical bills than any other reason, and of those bankruptcies, most of them had medical insurance at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/22 "2012-01-19T06:00:36Z")
I pick the new guy. I doubt he can do too much damage to womens rights because everything would be filibustered in congress by democrats, plus the courts are the ones with the real power on that issue. He would move the overton window to the left, which would push other politicians to the left. I don’t think he’d have much power to pass legislation, but he could use his executive powers in an efficient way and get some things done. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/23 "2012-01-19T14:52:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why do you bother with this, **Qin?** You’re never going to get liberals on the side of any candidate acceptable to **you** – or to the “Non-GOP Right” – that’s just how it is. Too many deal-breakers. If your candidate is pro-life, that ends the discussion. Because, I don’t know, maybe that was the question he was wondering about? Why do you assume that he has an ulterior motive? Do all of your posts have some meaning that you are hiding from everyone else? Mine sure don’t. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/24 "2012-02-07T09:17:45Z")
There is not a republican candidate for the nomination who is in any way better than Obama. The republican candidates running for the nomination are the sorriest group imaginable. There will be no imaginary candidate so why postulate one? It is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/25 "2012-02-07T11:02:13Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > So once again you’re given the choice of either making him be the next President of the United States or you flip a coin between a second term for Obama and a President Mitt Romney. What do you choose? If I’ve been given these godlike powers, to either install this hypothetical Dem in the White House, or literally have to flip a coin to determine whether Obama or Romney will be the next President, then I’m installing this guy in the White House. A Republican Presidency of any sort right now would be a disaster from a Dem POV. If I can decide between a 50% chance of a Republican President, and a 0% chance of a Republican President, I’m taking the latter. But getting back to real life for a moment: > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > There is quite literally no person in the United States of America that would make a better candidate for the Democratic Party than the sitting President of the United States. All those who say otherwise need to be carefully observed to see what their agenda might be for his defeat. Bingo. The only thing I’d add is that there is quite literally no person in the United States of America that would make a better candidate for any of those ‘we need someone in between the two parties who can unite us all’ types than the sitting President of the United States. Inevitably, they come up with a hypothetical agenda for a hypothetical third party of the center that differs from Obama’s existing positions by no more than a few angstroms, but seem to feel the need to blame both parties for the state of our politics today. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/26 "2012-02-07T13:25:03Z")
You could have just asked whether I’d be willing to trade gay marriage and abortion for stronger anti-war cred, a bit more whiteness, and more “experience”. (the latter being in scare quotes because the experience of a state governor is far overstated for the job of POTUS). Instead we get these elaborate hypotheticals that are inevitably bait for a “librul hypocrisy” trap. And I would have to say no, I would still pass over more-qualified candidates who more or less agree with my current views, because as a liberal I must confess that when I think about Obama, the anointed messiah, I get a little googly-headed and find myself unable to perform any kind of real critical evaluation. Is that roughly the response you were fishing for? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/27 "2012-02-07T15:24:27Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I’m going to go against the grain for selfish reasons… That selfish reason for you applies. To millions of other Americans and more importantly universal health care is the ONLY thing that will save America. > [@Chronos](#): > > If we follow the terms of the hypothetical, and I can actually _guarantee_ that this guy gets in, then I’d choose him. I’m not a big fan of drug legalization, but that’s not a big priority for me. And I’m more pro-gay-rights than him, but his position there isn’t actually that different from Obama’s, and you take what you can get. On other issues, I mostly agree with him. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > If I’ve been given these godlike powers, to either install this hypothetical Dem in the White House, or literally have to flip a coin to determine whether Obama or Romney will be the next President, then I’m installing this guy in the White House. > > A Republican Presidency of any sort right now would be a disaster from a Dem POV. If I can decide between a 50% chance of a Republican President, and a 0% chance of a Republican President, I’m taking the latter. I prefer this imaginary guy to Obama on all domestic issues but prefer Obama on all foreign policy and national security issues. Maybe we can let him be obama’s imaginary domestic policy advisor. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/28 "2012-02-07T16:45:17Z")
[QUOTE=Qin Shi Huangdi;] 14672608 He is a very faithful Catholic and this shows in his political views which are in general very liberal especially for America. [/QUOTE] You lost me here. Is being opposed to birth control and abortion (as just two examples) now considered “very liberal”? “Very faithful” anything except for American is probably a deal breaker for me. In any case, Obama, or in your scenario, the coin toss. I’d just as soon have Mitt as this guy. One true test of a president, for me, is whether he can avoid major wars. Some presidents (I’m not naming names) seemed hungry for war. Some candidates today seem hungry for war. They just can’t wait to get their hands on the means. Obama has shown some restrant with the military and I’d like to have a little peace for the next 4 years. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/29 "2012-02-07T17:08:30Z")
I’m not a single-issue voter, but the hypothetical candidate you describe is very intriguing to me. I’m anti-abortion but not necessarily anti-choice. The hangup is, of course, that such a President would never be able to put all those things you list into effect. UHC isn’t going to fly (not yet), abortion is not going to be outlawed, and those things certainly won’t happen under the same administration. I’m not going to vote for a hypothetical over Obama, who overall has not done too badly with a very poor hand he was dealt. ETA: maybe I misunderstood the OP. I’d definitely lean toward this hypothetical guy if there was a 50% chance of getting Romney. “Faithful Catholic” does not bother me in the least, and I still don’t think he’s going to overturn Roe v. Wade. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/30 "2012-02-07T17:34:43Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > He is generally a good speaker and debater and resembles in many ways Harry Truman of two generations ago. He resembles Harry Truman in that he has some political positions that are similar to mine, but it’s as dumb as a box of rocks? No, thanks. I don’t need to consider the abortion issue, I like smart presidents. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/31 "2012-02-07T17:50:29Z")
Waitaminute. Does this unicorn-candidate BECOME President by my choosing him, or does he just run against Romney? Having a (real-life, as opposed to fantasy-hypothetical) Republican EVER be elected to the Presidency again is completely unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/32 "2012-02-07T23:58:52Z")
From the OP: > [@](#): > > you’re given the choice of either making him be the next President of the United States or you flip a coin between a second term for Obama and a President Mitt Romney. What do you choose? Seems like it’s a choice between a 100% guaranteed Hypothetical Dem and a 50-50 chance of Romney. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/33 "2012-02-08T01:17:29Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=637741](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=637741) Inspire by this obviously. > > Suppose there was a middle-aged politician, and a former very popular governor of a large Midwestern State who was running to primary Obama in the Democratic nomination contest this year. He is generally a good speaker and debater and resembles in many ways Harry Truman of two generations ago. He is a very faithful Catholic and this shows in his political views which are in general very liberal especially for America. On health care he advocates single-payer UHC, criticizes the stimulus bill as not going far enough, favours more regulations on companies, and is economically protectionist. He is sympathetic to illegal immigrants and favours a path to citizenship to them and advocates a concilatory foreign policy and opposes Obama’s wars in Afghanistan and Libya. However in keeping with his Catholic views, however he is opposed to abortion and favours banning it and opposes gay marriage although he supports civil unions. On the other hand he is fairly socially liberal on other issues and opposes the death penalty and favours drug legalization. > > So once again you’re given the choice of either making him be the next President of the United States or you flip a coin between a second term for Obama and a President Mitt Romney. What do you choose? BTW, how is this about the “Non-GOP Right”? This dude you’re describing here is some kinda Republican or Democrat, could be either. The Non-GOP Right includes Nazis, White Nationalists, Minutemen, the Libertarian Party, the religious-right Constitution Party – **not** anybody who could be in any way characterized as a centrist or a moderate. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/34 "2012-02-08T02:07:10Z")
Could the OP please clarify the hypothetical candidate’s stand on contraception. Is it the “official” Catholic position? Government subsidizing of birth control OK? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/35 "2012-02-08T04:49:57Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > You could have just asked whether I’d be willing to trade gay marriage and abortion for stronger anti-war cred, a bit more whiteness, and more “experience”. (the latter being in scare quotes because the experience of a state governor is far overstated for the job of POTUS). Instead we get these elaborate hypotheticals that are inevitably bait for a “librul hypocrisy” trap. > > And I would have to say no, I would still pass over more-qualified candidates who more or less agree with my current views, because as a liberal I must confess that when I think about Obama, the anointed messiah, I get a little googly-headed and find myself unable to perform any kind of real critical evaluation. Is that roughly the response you were fishing for? No I was just curious to see how important high-emotion social issues as opposed economic issues are to Democrats and liberals. > [@Ravenman](#): > > He resembles Harry Truman in that he has some political positions that are similar to mine, but it’s as dumb as a box of rocks? > > No, thanks. I don’t need to consider the abortion issue, I like smart presidents. How was Harry Truman “dumb”? He didn’t go to college but neither did George Washington and Abraham Lincoln and from his record he did very well. And I meant Harry Truman as I’ve said in his speaking style of fiery populist rhetoric rather than his education level. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Waitaminute. Does this unicorn-candidate BECOME President by my choosing him, or does he just run against Romney? > > Having a (real-life, as opposed to fantasy-hypothetical) Republican EVER be elected to the Presidency again is completely unacceptable. Yes he’s guaranteed to win. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > BTW, how is this about the “Non-GOP Right”? This dude you’re describing here is some kinda Republican or Democrat, could be either. The Non-GOP Right includes Nazis, White Nationalists, Minutemen, the Libertarian Party, the religious-right Constitution Party – **not** anybody who could be in any way characterized as a centrist or a moderate. I was using that thread title because it based on another thread (linked in the OP) by another poster which used that title. > [@River\_Hippie](#): > > Could the OP please clarify the hypothetical candidate’s stand on contraception. Is it the “official” Catholic position? Government subsidizing of birth control OK? Yes he supports government support for birth control. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/36 "2012-02-08T05:18:31Z")
Despite his wrong-headed stances on social wedge issues, I’d take Mr. X over a 50% chance of Romney. BTW, “Obama’s war in Libya” made much more sense than Bush’s adventure in Iraq. Do you disagree, **Qin**? Do let’s emphasize again that it is very unfortunate that social wedge issues like gay marriage, gun rights and even abortion play such a strong role in American politics. Some issues are far more urgent, and anyway, with the exception of his Supreme Court appointments, a President has relatively little power on these matters. (And, though their stance on social wedge issues may get publicity, it is the pro-corporation, anti-people stance of GWB’s Judges that is so saddening. Moreover, even right-wing Justices now seem to agree that Roe-v-Wade is settled law.) And public stance on issues is not the only criterion for selecting a President. I took the “find your soulmate among Pres. candidates” quiz and aligned closer to Gingrich than any other Republican, yet would want to vomit every time I thought of him, were he to be President. > [@Ravenman](#): > > He resembles Harry Truman in that he has some political positions that are similar to mine, but it’s as dumb as a box of rocks? Truman may not have been an intellectual, but generally made excellent decisions, played a key role in the early containment of communism, and his Marshall Plan was a successful investment almost amazing in its wisdom. Truman is widely regarded as one of America’s greatest Presidents. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/37 "2012-02-08T05:25:55Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Despite his wrong-headed stances on social wedge issues, I’d take Mr. X over a 50% chance of Romney. BTW, “Obama’s war in Libya” made much more sense than Bush’s adventure in Iraq. Do you disagree, **Qin**? Yes I agree. President Obama intervened without a massive and costly effort and with full international support and goodwill ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660/38 "2012-02-08T21:05:26Z")
That “guarantee” to win looks too much like leprechaun gold (as envisioned by Rowling) for my taste. As does the coin toss for Obama/Romney. I’m going to fight the hypothetical and stick with President Obama. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-liberals-and-the-non-gop-right-thread/609660.md?page=1)