# Another Man's Analysis of the Election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 11, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519 "2016-11-11T18:00:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/1 "2016-11-11T18:00:35Z")
An article I agree with. I’d like to hear reasoned responses, not rants, from both sides. [Mike Rowe Finally Weighs In On Trump’s Victory. Hillary’s Supporters Won’t Like This](http://tribunist.com/news/mike-rowe-finally-weighs-in-on-trumps-victory-hillarys-supporters-wont-like-this/) ETA: I don’t agree with the title part that says Hillary supporters won’t like this. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/2 "2016-11-11T18:02:23Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Thoughts? The headline is click-bait. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/3 "2016-11-11T18:04:48Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > The headline is click-bait. Let’s leave the fear-mongering with the rants and not in this thread. If you don’t care to give a reasoned response then I’m not asking for your input. Can we discuss like adults? Perhaps fight some ignorance? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/4 "2016-11-11T18:08:38Z")
“Licking the cat.” I suppose that’s as good a simile for this past election as any. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/5 "2016-11-11T18:18:54Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Let’s leave the fear-mongering with the rants and not in this thread. If you don’t care to give a reasoned response then I’m not asking for your input. Can we discuss like adults? Perhaps fight some ignorance? Then let me expand on what I meant: if a publisher can’t bother with to accurately headline its own article, then I can’t be bothered to read it. They’ve poisoned their own well. If you want to discuss a particular point you’ve read, then quote or explain it, instead of expecting us to pump up someone’s click-through rate. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/6 "2016-11-11T19:37:42Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Then let me expand on what I meant: if a publisher can’t bother with to accurately headline its own article, then I can’t be bothered to read it. They’ve poisoned their own well. > > If you want to discuss a particular point you’ve read, then quote or explain it, instead of expecting us to pump up someone’s click-through rate. Fair enough. Mike Rowe says, bolding mine and I agree with these, > [@](#): > > We’ve survived 44 Presidents, and we’ll survive this one too. I’m worried because millions of people now seem to believe that Trump supporters are racist, xenophobic, and uneducated misogynists. I’m worried because **despising our candidates publicly is very different than despising the people who vote for them**. And > [@](#): > > I don’t think Donald Trump won by tapping into America’s “racist underbelly,” and I don’t think Hillary lost because she’s a woman. I think a majority of people who voted in this election did so in spite of their many misgivings about the character of both candidates. That’s why **it’s very dangerous to argue that Clinton supporters condone lying under oath and obstructing justice. Just as it’s equally dangerous to suggest a Trump supporter condones gross generalizations about foreigners and women.** > > These two candidates were the choices we gave ourselves, and **each came with a heaping helping of vulgarity and impropriety**. Yeah, it was dirty job for sure, but **the winner was NOT decided by a racist and craven nation** \*\* – it was decided by millions of disgusted Americans desperate for real change. The people did not want a politician. The people wanted to be seen. Donald Trump convinced those people that he could see them. Hillary Clinton did not.\*\* And > [@](#): > > However, when the dust settles, and The White House gets a new tenant, I’ll make the same offer to President Trump that I did to President Obama – **to assist as best I can** in any attempt to reinvigorate the skilled trades, and shine a light on millions of good jobs that no one seems excited about pursuing. ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/7 "2016-11-11T19:47:10Z")
Mike Rowe is despised by liberals because he represents masculinity. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/8 "2016-11-11T19:54:24Z")
I’ve admired Mike’s efforts to revitalize entry and training into skilled trades in this country for as long as he’s been doing that. I think he’s one of the most honest and humble public figures we have. That said, his take on this isn’t any deeper than many we’ve seen on the Dope in the last couple of days, and he suffers from the same false equivalency tendencies as many other well meaning people. He believes the false information he’s been exposed to; it’s not a crime, but it’s the sort of thing that should be countered. Donald Trump actually _is_ a fraudster, a racist, a xenophobe and at least a misogynist and very possibly a rapist. Hillary Clinton _did not_ lie under oath, and she _did not_ obstruct justice. The fact that Mike has fallen for that calumny like so many others does not validate the lie just because Mike is awesome, nor does it invalidate Mike’s opinion on the resiliency of the country and the decency of voters just because he bought the plausible lie. In short, Mike would fit in on the Dope but he’s just as wrong just as often as the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/9 "2016-11-11T20:04:45Z")
Thank you, **Bullitt**! I basically agree with the quotes. (And I am a Hillary supporter.) Especially the part about reinvigorating the skilled trades. My main caveat is that while it’s bad to paint a group of people with a broad brush, it is useful to call out deplorable behavior. Trump had that in spades, and he declined to do anything to discourage it when some of his supporters acted deplorably. So while many of his supporters are not deplorable, Trumps own deplorable actions and own inaction against it did make the election about sexism and racism. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/10 "2016-11-11T20:05:57Z")
The inescapable fact is that a lot of people looked at this man who was supported by Vladimir Putin and by the Klan, who repeatedly quoted white supremacists in an approving fashion, who bragged about committing sexual assault, and these people decided that whatever issues they believed in outweighed preventing such a man from taking the reins of power. The best you can say about them is that the safety of nonwhite Americans is not a super-important issue to them. That might not be racist, but it’s functionally equivalent. Rowe continues to have a smugly wrong view of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/11 "2016-11-11T20:40:05Z")
> [@](#): > > However, when the dust settles, and The White House gets a new tenant, I’ll make the same offer to President Trump that I did to President Obama – to assist as best I can in any attempt to reinvigorate the skilled trades, and shine a light on millions of good jobs that no one seems excited about pursuing. I get the part about Trump voters feeling like they have been ignored and forgotten. What I don’t get is why they think Trump will remember them now that he’s got what he wants from them. How many skilled tradesmen has Trump stiffed while building his penthouses and golf clubs? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/12 "2016-11-11T20:48:07Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Mike Rowe is despised by liberals because he represents masculinity. And everybody called it a pomegranate. I don’t know why they called it a pomegranate. But wavelengths are frequencies; It’s the world of creation. ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/13 "2016-11-11T20:53:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Just as it’s equally dangerous to suggest a Trump supporter condones gross generalizations about foreigners and women. I’ll see your bet of ‘minor celebrity has opinions’ and counter with the same: > **[The Cinemax Theory of Racism](https://whatever.scalzi.com/2016/11/10/the-cinemax-theory-of-racism/)** > > Yesterday I wrote here:  If Trump’s administration indulges in the racism, sexism and religious and other bigotries that Trump and his people have already promised to engage in, we can assume … > [@](#): > > If Trump’s administration indulges in the racism, sexism and religious and other bigotries that Trump and his people have already promised to engage in, we can assume it’s because his voters are just fine with that racism, sexism and religious and other bigotries — even if they claim to have voted for him for other reasons entirely. After all, Trump didn’t hide these things about himself, or try to sneak these plans in by a side door. They were in full view this entire time. If you vote for a bigot who has bigoted plans, you need to be aware of what that says about you, and your complicity in those plans. You don’t have to be a bigot to have voted for Trump, but if you did so, you are nonetheless complicit in any bigotry demonstrated by his administration. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/14 "2016-11-11T22:57:07Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Thank you, **Bullitt**! > > I basically agree with the quotes. (And I am a Hillary supporter.) Especially the part about reinvigorating the skilled trades. My main caveat is that while it’s bad to paint a group of people with a broad brush, it is useful to call out deplorable behavior. Trump had that in spades, and he declined to do anything to discourage it when some of his supporters acted deplorably. So while many of his supporters are not deplorable, Trumps own deplorable actions and own inaction against it did make the election about sexism and racism. **Pleonast** , generally I agree with this. (Well, except the part about supporting Hillary) 🙂 Trump was a buffoon and said stupid shit, lots of it, during the campaign. I winced every time. To my Muslim and gay friends, whom I love dearly, including my gay son whom I treasure, I could not with good conscience try to explain why I preferred Trump to Clinton. I avoided talking about it almost the entire time since he declared in June 2015. Trump did a fantastic job embarrassing his supporters. Thanks for your thoughts here. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/15 "2016-11-11T23:00:58Z")
> [@TheSeaOtter](#): > > You don’t have to be a bigot to have voted for Trump, but if you did so, you are nonetheless complicit in any bigotry demonstrated by his administration. Wait, so ANY bullshit some voter doesn’t agree with but comes from the person they voted for a bunch of other reasons is on them? Must be nice to live (or not) in such a black (heh) or white world… I’d just ask them if they agreed with shit X their candidate did or not before I assigned much blame…but that’s just me… PS. A choice between two (often shitty) candidates doesn’t allow for much moral fine tuning… ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/16 "2016-11-11T23:09:07Z")
Hi, **TheSeaOtter** , I do not believe that “Trump and his people have already promised to engage in” (the racism, sexism and religious and other bigotries), and “They were in full view this entire time”. Not saying these things have not been promised by Trump and his people, but if it has can you point me to a cite or source? Before you do, though, I will fully admit that Trump exaggerated and said a lot of stupid shit during the campaign, which in essence is a sales pitch to win the job. Just about every candidate has done that. That is, however, very different from **promising** to deliver “racism, sexism and religious and other bigotries” during his Presidency. So, yes please, some cites would help. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/17 "2016-11-11T23:27:42Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Hi, **TheSeaOtter** , I do not believe that “Trump and his people have already promised to engage in” (the racism, sexism and religious and other bigotries), and “They were in full view this entire time”. Not saying these things have not been promised by Trump and his people, but if it has can you point me to a cite or source? On the racism front, Trump has repeatedly promised to let darker-skinned people know that they are in a ‘special’ class of citizenry, by calling for widespread implementation of “stop-and-frisk”: > [@](#): > > You have to have, in my opinion – I see what’s going on here, I see what’s going on in Chicago – I think stop-and-frisk. In New York City it was so incredible, the way it worked. > [@](#): > > One of the things I’d do … is I would do stop-and-frisk. I think you have to. We did it in New York, it worked incredibly well > **[Trump touts stop-and-frisk practice amid black outreach | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/21/politics/donald-trump-stop-and-frisk/)** > > Donald Trump wants to take the controversial policy of stop-and-frisk to Chicago. This isn’t dog-whistling; this is being quite _open_ about planning to treat non-whites differently. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/18 "2016-11-11T23:33:35Z")
This passage from Rowe’s essay is telling, I find: > [@](#): > > These two candidates were the choices we gave ourselves, and each came with a heaping helping of vulgarity and impropriety. Yeah, it was dirty job for sure, but the winner was NOT decided by a racist and craven nation – it was decided by millions of disgusted Americans desperate for real change. The people did not want a politician. The people wanted to be seen. Donald Trump convinced those people that he could see them. Hillary Clinton did not. I’m prepared to recognize that Trump did a better sales job than Clinton, but I have my doubts that he can deliver a better product (or any product at all) to his “customers”, whereas Clinton had a boring and occasionally unsatisfactory but at least plausible line of products. I like Rowe’s work on TV, but I’m not seeing any major political insights, here. If desperation for change is a driver, then we should have seen a major shift in the House and Senate at least comparable to 2010, as well as in the state governments, _if it was applied consistently_. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/19 "2016-11-12T00:02:38Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > On the racism front, Trump has repeatedly promised to let darker-skinned people know that they are in a ‘special’ class of citizenry, by calling for widespread implementation of “stop-and-frisk”: > > [http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/21/politics/donald-trump-stop-and-frisk/](http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/21/politics/donald-trump-stop-and-frisk/) > > This isn’t dog-whistling; this is being quite _open_ about planning to treat non-whites differently. I think it is largely posturing, perhaps to gain the police votes. We’ll see what happens, I may be wrong about that, but then again I may be right. ---
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519/20 "2016-11-12T00:17:58Z")
Remember that Trump has expressed racist opinions for years, from discriminating in housing with his dad, to declaring the Central Park 5 should be executed and were guilty even after they were declared innocent, to his taking over the birther movement and demanding Obama’s long form birth certificate. He has shown racist tendencies way before this campaign. Even during the campaign, he showed he didn’t understand minority needs. So I’m quite willing to believe he’ll do the same as President (though to be fair, a lot of Republican presidents didn’t understand minority needs). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mans-analysis-of-the-election/771519.md?page=2)