# Another mass shooting in the US (Texas) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811 "2017-11-05T20:12:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/61 "2017-11-06T14:22:04Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Don’t link to the Daily Mail as if it were a reputable news source. It is a reputable source for these shootings. They were way ahead of the pack in the LV shootings. Don’t smear with a broad brush. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/62 "2017-11-06T14:26:44Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Don’t link to the Daily Mail as if it were a reputable news source. Dola, you could actually read Kelleys FB posts and listen to what his friends have said. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/63 "2017-11-06T14:29:53Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Don’t link to the Daily Mail as if it were a reputable news source. How about the [BBC](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41884342) or the [Baltimore Post-Examiner](http://baltimorepostexaminer.com/worst-mass-shooting-house-worship-us-history-leaves-26-dead/2017/11/06)? > [@](#): > > “He was always talking about how people who believe in God we’re (sic) stupid and trying to preach his atheism,” one Facebook user commented. > [@](#): > > Kelley’s Facebook “Likes” included four Atheist sites: Atheism (Nonprofit Organization), Atheist (Community Organization), Friendly Atheist (Personal Blog) and Atheist Republic (Nonprofit Organization). ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/64 "2017-11-06T14:33:05Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > One of the things that needs to happen is **not** giving the perpetrators of these crimes all the coverage they wanted in the first place. > No names, no life history, no nothing, give them nothing and maybe then we’ll start seeing less of it. THIS! If they can’t go out in a blaze of “glory”, there’s less incentive to do it. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/65 "2017-11-06T14:37:44Z")
Patrick Boyce who’d attended New Braunfels High School with Devin Kelly: ‘He had a kid or two, fairly normal, but kinda quiet and lately seemed depressed. He was the first atheist I met. He went Air Force after high school, got discharged but I don’t know why. I was just shocked [to hear the news]. Still haven’t quite processed how he could have done that.’ Nina Rose Nava, who also went to school with Kelley, wrote on Facebook: ‘In in complete shock! I legit just deleted him off my fb cause I couldn’t stand his post. He was always talking about how people who believe in God we’re stupid and trying to preach his atheism.’ Christopher Leo Longoria replied: ‘I removed him off FB for those same reasons! He was being super negative all the time.’ Michael Goff added: ‘He was weird but never that damn weird, always posting his atheist sh\*\* like Nina wrote, but damn he always posted pics of him and his baby – crazy.’ ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/66 "2017-11-06T14:47:07Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I’ve read that doesn’t apply to court martial decisions, but IANAL. Regardless, CNN reported that he bought the weapon from a Academy Sports in 2016, which is a major sporting goods store in the area, and posted pictures of it on Facebook. Neither of those are the actions of someone who purchased a firearm illegally. I’m not sure how that is. The Lautenberg amendment applies to the military too. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/67 "2017-11-06T14:49:17Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > _Ora et labora._ > > You’re not supposed to just pray, you’re supposed to work towards improving the situation. Now, now, now; the rules are that you’re not supposed to actually _do_ anything unless the shooter yells [DEL]“Simon Says!”[/DEL], er, “Allahu Akbar!” ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/68 "2017-11-06T14:56:16Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I’m not sure how that is. The Lautenberg amendment applies to the military too. Can’t find a great cite but [there’s lots of mediocre ones](http://ms.ng.mil/resources/specialstaff/sja/Documents/Information%20Papers/Lautenberg.pdf) out there that indicate summary court martial decisions and non-judicial punishments don’t count as misdemeanor convictions, and therefore don’t trigger Lautenberg. > [@](#): > > “Conviction” does NOT include, however, Article 15s, summary court-martial convictions, deferred prosecution (or similar dispositions) in civilian courts, or judgments that have been expunged or set-aside. That cite is from the Mississippi NG JA office, but it’s the most official I could find on page 1 of google. eta: Seems that the text of the amendment requires a jury conviction, or a defendant who waived the right to a jury. That would be why summary courts martial don’t apply. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/69 "2017-11-06T15:27:50Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Now, now, now; the rules are that you’re not supposed to actually _do_ anything unless the shooter yells [DEL]“Simon Says!”[/DEL], er, “Allahu Akbar!” What would you like to do? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/70 "2017-11-06T15:29:01Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Can’t find a great cite but [there’s lots of mediocre ones](http://ms.ng.mil/resources/specialstaff/sja/Documents/Information%20Papers/Lautenberg.pdf) out there that indicate summary court martial decisions and non-judicial punishments don’t count as misdemeanor convictions, and therefore don’t trigger Lautenberg. > > That cite is from the Mississippi NG JA office, but it’s the most official I could find on page 1 of google. > > eta: Seems that the text of the amendment requires a jury conviction, or a defendant who waived the right to a jury. That would be why summary courts martial don’t apply. The maximum sentence for a summary court martial is 30 days confinement. He was sentenced to a year. Most likely he was tried in a Special Court Martial which does count as a misdemeanor conviction. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/71 "2017-11-06T15:31:43Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Don’t link to the Daily Mail as if it were a reputable news source. This comes across like junior modding. Don’t tell another poster what they can use as a cite. Feel free to refute what the cite says. ---
**Author:** ![thunderdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@thunderdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thunderdog)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/72 "2017-11-06T15:33:32Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Now, now, now; the rules are that you’re not supposed to actually _do_ anything unless the shooter yells [DEL]“Simon Says!”[/DEL], er, “Allahu Akbar!” Yes please tell us exactly what to do. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/73 "2017-11-06T15:36:53Z")
As per CNN the shooter was able to pass a background check to buy a gun last year. He was later denied a concealed carry permit. It’s confirmed that his in-laws attend that church but they weren’t present at the time of the shooting. He was shot by the responding neighbor and fled but later turned the gun on himself. This is the article with the above information. > **[Authorities: Texas church shooter had three gunshot wounds | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-church-shooting/index.html)** > > Texas church gunman Devin Kelley killed his grandmother-in-law, Lula White, in the massacre Sunday, multiple friends told CNN. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/74 "2017-11-06T16:09:42Z")
[Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHUFiG1YBwc&t=0m19s). ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/75 "2017-11-06T16:53:13Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > One of the things that needs to happen is **not** giving the perpetrators of these crimes all the coverage they wanted in the first place. > No names, no life history, no nothing, give them nothing and maybe then we’ll start seeing less of it. > [@Clothahump](#): > > THIS! If they can’t go out in a blaze of “glory”, there’s less incentive to do it. :dubious: I don’t think anyone can ever figure out his true motive, but I don’t think it was a thirst for fame. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/76 "2017-11-06T17:05:27Z")
I wait in anticipation for extreme vetting of UK residents coming to America; we’re thoroughly atheist over here. Though somehow we usually resist the temptation to murder believers. But really; if this shooting is classed as ideologically-driven (like the jihadists) and it’'s only white Christian maniacs considered aberrations suffering from mental illness I’ll be appalled, and entirely unsurprised. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/77 "2017-11-06T18:03:02Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > One of the things that needs to happen is **not** giving the perpetrators of these crimes all the coverage they wanted in the first place. > No names, no life history, no nothing, give them nothing and maybe then we’ll start seeing less of it. [Doesn’t work](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herostratus), not even when the penalty for talking about such infamy-seekers is death. It would also make them much more frightening and hard to deal with if nobody is allowed to talk about them. Just imagine an organized campaign to kill black or Jews where nobody is allowed to talk about who is doing it. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/78 "2017-11-06T18:40:56Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > [Doesn’t work](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herostratus), not even when the penalty for talking about such infamy-seekers is death. > > It would also make them much more frightening and hard to deal with if nobody is allowed to talk about them. Just imagine an organized campaign to kill black or Jews where nobody is allowed to talk about who is doing it. I think it should be ok to talk about the shooter and General details concerning their life up to that point, but they should be identified as “the shooter”, “police interviewed ‘the shooter’s’ spouse”, and so forth. With a fb-like silhouette for a picture if they want graphics. Because, honestly, these kind of events _are_ scary, and they should be treated as scary. Maybe that will inspire more people to call for action. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/79 "2017-11-06T18:43:00Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I think it should be ok to talk about the shooter and General details concerning their life up to that point, but they should be identified as “the shooter”, “police interviewed ‘the shooter’s’ spouse”, and so forth. With a fb-like silhouette for a picture if they want graphics. > > Because, honestly, these kind of events _are_ scary, and they should be treated as scary. Maybe that will inspire more people to call for action. That can only be done by identifying the shooter and finding out all details about his life and what motivated him. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/80 "2017-11-06T18:53:59Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > … But really; if this shooting is classed as ideologically-driven (like the jihadists) and it’'s only white Christian maniacs considered aberrations suffering from mental illness I’ll be appalled, and entirely unsurprised. I really don’t know what you’re talking about. There are plenty of shootings by white men that are “classed as ideologically-driven”. Just off the top of my head I can think of Dylan Roof, the guy that shot up the abortion clinic, and the Sikh temple shooting in Wisconsin. There’s not some magical white privilege that gets our shootings ‘excused’, or whatever you’re imagining happens. ETA: Oh, and the guy that shot Steve Scalise [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811.md?page=5)