# Another mass shooting in the US (Texas) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811 "2017-11-05T20:12:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/141 "2017-11-07T16:53:43Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Ok - do away with the felony part. Most states do not require a background check to LEGALLY buy a gun from a private party. > > So, do you still stand by your statement it is easier to buy a truck than a gun? Yes, how is it not? At best, with your example there exists a small subset of purchases of guns that can be purchased without a background check. If your intent is evil then nothing changes. Guns will still be purchased by current or future criminals illegally. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/142 "2017-11-07T17:00:50Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > And you know what happened after that event? A gazillion new laws, regulations, agencies, driving across dams closed, etc. Massive money was spent to stop it from ever happening again. Do you feel safer with the additional screening? I’m in the aviation business. I know what goes on at airports. Whatever allusions of safety you have are misplaced. > [@wguy123](#): > > What happens with smaller mass murders by guns? Jack and shit. At least one state has already passed bump-stock laws so that statement is false. What additional laws do you wish to create and how will that stop a criminal? ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/143 "2017-11-07T17:28:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you feel safer with the additional screening? I’m in the aviation business. I know what goes on at airports. Whatever allusions of safety you have are misplaced. > > At least one state has already passed bump-stock laws so that statement is false. What additional laws do you wish to create and how will that stop a criminal? So you are basically saying there is nothing that can be done to stop people from flying jets into buildings or people shooting mass amounts of people so we should just throw up our hands and say “gah, not again, but, what can ya do?” It seems to be the vast majority of all these crimes are committed by men. Maybe that’s the avenue we should be going after. I bet Magiver is a man… ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/144 "2017-11-07T17:29:49Z")
The reason the shooter was able to purchase a firearm even though he should have failed a background check was that the A[ir Force failed to submit Texas shooter’s criminal history to the FBI](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/ap-report-air-force-failed-to-submit-texas-shooters-criminal-history-to-the-fbi). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/145 "2017-11-07T17:47:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s not wanted in this country so yes, it would take magic. You’re surer than the evidence would support. > [@](#): > > Whether someone uses a gun or a truck is irrelevant. It’s the intent of the person and the ability to murder that is the issue. Removing guns doesn’t change that. Removing the most efficient means of murder doesn’t save any lives? Really? That’s what the civilized world already has accepted, btw. > [@](#): > > It’s already more difficult to purchase a gun than it is to buy a truck. Some statements are futile to counter, but can only be admired. That was one. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/146 "2017-11-07T17:47:37Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > So you are basically saying there is nothing that can be done to stop people from flying jets into buildings or people shooting mass amounts of people. No I’m not basically saying that and I already posted some suggestions. > [@wguy123](#): > > It seems to be the vast majority of all these crimes are committed by men. Yes. And again, I addressed that issue although in a “read between the lines” manner. If you don’t address root causes then the solution is a waste of time and money. I’ll give you a simple example, We spend billions on security systems for airports that don’t work. They don’t address human behavior. The Israelis use an interviewing system done in layers that focuses directly on human behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/147 "2017-11-07T17:58:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You’re surer than the evidence would support. there’s no evidence to support your position. Americans don’t want to give up their guns. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Removing the most efficient means of murder doesn’t save any lives? Really? really. There is no logic to your premise that removing a gun has any affect on a person’s ability to kill. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/148 "2017-11-07T18:14:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > you can’t do that without passing a background check. > > There is no background check or restrictions for buying a truck. Yeah, I realized I was wrong about the background check and posted a correction. It is only harder if you consider waiting for a background check to be “hard” ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/149 "2017-11-07T18:59:02Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > The worst intentional mass killing using a [del]truck[/del] _vehicle_ in this country is 8 people, with _almost_ a dozen more injured. This guy in TX killed 26 & he didn’t even get ½ the fatalities or 1/10[sup]th[/sup] the injuries that happened in Vegas. > > You still think a truck is a deadly as a gun? Yes, trucks have been as deadly as any firearm. The result of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing killed 168 people, injured more than 680 others, and destroyed one-third of the building. The blast destroyed or damaged 324 other buildings within a 16-block radius, shattered glass in 258 nearby buildings, and destroyed or burned 86 cars. According to Wiki. Guns and trucks don’t kill people. People kill people. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/150 "2017-11-07T19:07:56Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Oklahoma City **bombing** Post shortened, emphasis added, eyes rolled. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/151 "2017-11-07T19:08:49Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Yes, trucks have been as deadly as any firearm. The result of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing killed 168 people, injured more than 680 others, and destroyed one-third of the building. The blast destroyed or damaged 324 other buildings within a 16-block radius, shattered glass in 258 nearby buildings, and destroyed or burned 86 cars. According to Wiki. > > Guns and trucks don’t kill people. People kill people. And again, they passed regulations to make this form of attack harder (along with flying planes into buildings). Thanks for showing that we should pass regulation to make it harder for people to use guns to commit mass murders. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/152 "2017-11-07T19:10:00Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > [Fewer guns = fewer deaths by guns.](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts) Period. Which has no [correlation](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/06/zero-correlation-between-state-homicide-rate-and-state-gun-laws/?utm_term=.4511a9a16c77) to murder rates… > [@](#): > > But if we do look for now at correlation, it seems to me that the key question should focus on state total homicide rates, or perhaps (for reasons I describe below) total intentional homicide plus accidental gun death rates. And it turns out that there is essentially zero correlation between these numbers and state gun laws. Sorry, the problems behind these instances cannot be reduced to a neat sound bite. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/153 "2017-11-07T20:15:14Z")
Perhaps I missed seeing it anywhere here on the SD forums, but it bears repeating that a neighbor with an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle put an end to the mass murder event. Funny how the popular media (and most posters here on SDMB) wants to gloss over the fact that an armed neighbor shot the church murderer, stopping further murders. It would have been better, of course, had he reacted faster, but better late than never. A good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with a gun, using a gun that the gun control crowd wants to ban. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/154 "2017-11-07T20:25:45Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > Perhaps I missed seeing it anywhere here on the SD forums, but it bears repeating that a neighbor with an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle put an end to the mass murder event. Funny how the popular media (and most posters here on SDMB) wants to gloss over the fact that an armed neighbor shot the church murderer, stopping further murders. It would have been better, of course, had he reacted faster, but better late than never. A good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with a gun, using a gun that the gun control crowd wants to ban. It’s been discussed, the reason it’s not been discussed more is because reality doesn’t match your version. Consider A) The shooter had already left the church before he was confronted by the neighbor, suggesting that his spree was likely already over, B) The neighbor shot the guy twice but he didn’t actually, you know, die until he shot himself in the head It’s not the worse “good guy with a gun story” I’ve heard, but it’s not the best, either. Reality never plays out quite as well as the fantasies. Everyone inside that church would have been better off if neither of those AR-15s existed. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/155 "2017-11-07T20:30:33Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > Perhaps I missed seeing it anywhere here on the SD forums, but it bears repeating that a neighbor with an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle put an end to the mass murder event. Funny how the popular media (and most posters here on SDMB) wants to gloss over the fact that an armed neighbor shot the church murderer, stopping further murders. It would have been better, of course, had he reacted faster, but better late than never. A good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with a gun, using a gun that the gun control crowd wants to ban. Pssst - Post #100 ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/156 "2017-11-07T20:36:21Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Pssst - Post #100 I’ve seen it in multiple spots on this forum along with a ton of mainstream media coverage. I guess until the “good guy with a gun” is the headline instead of “another mass murder due to guns”, it’s all liberal bias. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/157 "2017-11-07T20:39:53Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > A good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with a gun, using a gun that the gun control crowd wants to ban. Had the gun control crowd had their way, the BAD GUY would not have had a gun, either, and there would be no need of the post-hoc good guy. And dozens of people wouldn’t be dead. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/158 "2017-11-07T20:48:19Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yeah, I realized I was wrong about the background check and posted a correction. > > It is only harder if you consider waiting for a background check to be “hard” OK, lets expand on that. The purpose of the background check is to screen out the obvious. It’s hard for those who aren’t supposed to be able to purchase a gun. It’s not meant to be hard for those who can legitimately purchase one. For people with a CCW license there is a required safety course to obtain the license. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/159 "2017-11-07T20:51:29Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > Had the gun control crowd had their way, the BAD GUY would not have had a gun, either, and there would be no need of the post-hoc good guy. And dozens of people wouldn’t be dead. This is patently absurd. At best you would have a law abiding citizen without a gun. But unless you have a solution to the heroin problem you don’t have a method for removing guns. On top of that there is no evidence you can produce that the killer couldn’t have killed those people using other methods. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811/160 "2017-11-07T20:56:20Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > It’s been discussed, the reason it’s not been discussed more is because reality doesn’t match your version. Consider > > A) The shooter had already left the church before he was confronted by the neighbor, suggesting that his spree was likely already over, > B) The neighbor shot the guy twice but he didn’t actually, you know, die until he shot himself in the head > > It’s not the worse “good guy with a gun story” I’ve heard, but it’s not the best, either. Reality never plays out quite as well as the fantasies. Everyone inside that church would have been better off if neither of those AR-15s existed. The reports I’ve read seem to indicate that both shots were severe wounds, and they possibly, you know, resulted in the murderer losing control of his truck in a pretty significant accident. That he shot himself in the head is certainly a bonus all-around. You seem pretty sure the shooter had wrapped up his day and was going home to enjoy a nice, cold beer rather than, you know, continuing to shoot other people in other locations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-in-the-us-texas/800811.md?page=9)