# Another Mass Shooting (San Bernardino) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 2, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242 "2015-12-02T19:58:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/261 "2015-12-04T01:37:17Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I would believe that Enterprise lets the police access their computer records. I have no problem with that. If a group of domestic terrorists considers renting cars to try to avoid detection, its nice to know the FBI can track all of their asses right back to a common point of origin (or even to a common staging point, if they are rented & stored beforehand). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/262 "2015-12-04T02:08:05Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > I have no problem with that. > > If a group of domestic terrorists considers renting cars to try to avoid detection, its nice to know the FBI can track all of their asses right back to a common point of origin (or even to a common staging point, if they are rented & stored beforehand). I agree, but there will be some super smart, genius terrorist, who does not do it under his or her name. Usually, they do not plan to survive, but given their effort at escape, these folks did. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/263 "2015-12-04T02:31:01Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I would believe that Enterprise lets the police access their computer records. Sure, as I acknowledged. But the cops would have to request records from the credit card companies; have someone go through them; then request records from the rental company; wait for the rental company lawyer to OK it and someone to produce the records; and still get to the guy’s house in time to surprise him when he came back from the shooting. I’m not seeing that happening. I’m not saying there is some conspiracy or anything. Just that the cops either have surprisingly quick and comprehensive access to people’s rental activities, or the article was glossing over some piece of information. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/264 "2015-12-04T02:31:24Z")
This is pure speculation, but … It’s being reported that one of the victims was a “Messianic Jew” — I don’t know if that means he believed in Jesus or what — who worked with Farook. Evidently this man was very devout, wore Jewish religious garb, and was vocal about his faith. If we’re assuming that Farook was an Islamic extremist, then the presence of that one guy in the office could be sufficient to explain why he chose to attack his co-workers rather than some public target. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/265 "2015-12-04T02:34:00Z")
One of the victims was Iranian, so I don’t see how that would be a trigger. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/266 "2015-12-04T02:38:17Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I would believe that Enterprise lets the police access their computer records. > [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > I have no problem with that. > > If a group of domestic terrorists considers renting cars to try to avoid detection, its nice to know the FBI can track all of their asses right back to a common point of origin (or even to a common staging point, if they are rented & stored beforehand). > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I agree, but there will be some super smart, genius terrorist, who does not do it under his or her name. > Usually, they do not plan to survive, but given their effort at escape, these folks did. Somewhat related, there was a case in Thailand just this week in which [an American participated in the kidnapping and murder of a former head of the Australian Hell’s Angels](http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/crime/783933/american-confesses-to-kidnap-and-murder-of-aussie-biker). The authorities found the body because after the American was apprehended as he was about to cross into Cambodia, he gave information about having rented a vehicle in Pattaya. The authorities then used the GPS on that vehicle to determine where exactly that vehicle had been. I imagine the US authorities could do similar in these cases. Of course, they’d need to know a vehicle was rented in the first place, but I think this is the first time I’ve heard of this being done. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/267 "2015-12-04T02:44:15Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > One of the victims was Iranian, so I don’t see how that would be a trigger. I don’t see how the presence of an Iranian changes the calculus one way or the other. It’s not like an Iranian “cancels out” a Jew. (I think the Iranian woman was Christian, by the way.) ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/268 "2015-12-04T02:58:48Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I also read that the recoil from the M-14 (7.62) was uncontrollable on full-auto. With a trained shooter it isn’t terrible but ---------- it isn’t the worst I’ve ever shot. But I’ve seen rookie ROTC cadets seriously spray and pray first time behind the buttplate. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSceYZsGbkU) ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/269 "2015-12-04T03:08:23Z")
… And now some of the tabloids are reporting that this particular victim was a right-winger who loved Israel and ranted against Islam on Facebook. I think the question of the unusual target choice has been fully explained. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/270 "2015-12-04T03:15:48Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > One of the victims was Iranian, so I don’t see how that would be a trigger. Iranians and Arabs dislike each other, Persians being Indo European. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/271 "2015-12-04T03:18:09Z")
[quote=“kopek, post:268, topic:739242”] With a trained shooter it isn’t terrible but ---------- it isn’t the worst I’ve ever shot. But I’ve seen rookie ROTC cadets seriously spray and pray first time behind the buttplate. [/QUOTE] He’s braced and firing bursts. At the end, he’s three rounding and he’s obviously coming off target. I’d like to see him try that standing upright and running the whole mag non-stop. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/272 "2015-12-04T03:22:56Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > … And now some of the tabloids are reporting that this particular victim was a right-winger who loved Israel and ranted against Islam on Facebook. > > I think the question of the unusual target choice has been fully explained. Did they have to shoot all the other people too? ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/273 "2015-12-04T03:43:52Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Did they have to shoot all the other people too? If you have to ask that question, you’re not a bloodthirsty wacko. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/274 "2015-12-04T03:52:39Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Did they have to shoot all the other people too? Perhaps the “thinking” was something like: “Eliminate this outspoken Jew, and also a cross-sectional sample population of the US society which allows people like him to exist.” If this turns out to be the case, parts of _Borat_ won’t be nearly as funny anymore ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/275 "2015-12-04T04:17:37Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > > [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > > > One of the victims was Iranian, so I don’t see how that would be a trigger. > > Iranians and Arabs dislike each other, Persians being Indo European. What do Arabs have to do with this? Farook was Pakistani-American and also Indo-European. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/276 "2015-12-04T13:56:23Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > A question about the police response…In one of the stories I read, I saw this: > ( [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/12/03/fbi-takes-over-san-bernardino-investigation-as-authorities-seek-motive-for-attack-that-killed-14-people/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/12/03/fbi-takes-over-san-bernardino-investigation-as-authorities-seek-motive-for-attack-that-killed-14-people/)) > > So, the police hear that this guy left unexpectedly, and they “check his name”, and learn that he had rented a black SUV? How’d they do that?? Do car rental places report rentals in to some central police database in California? How does a car rental follow your name somewhere the police can see it quickly when they “check your name”? > > I could see the police getting credit card records, seeing a charge at Enterprise, calling Enterprise and asking for their records, _then_ seeing that he’d rented a black SUV. But that would take way more than the couple hours they completed their check in. > > What’s the deal? They apparently had the name relatively quick after the incident. It would be very easy to look up if he had a car registered to him. After that you have 350 San Bernardino police officers, 2,000 San Bernardino Sheriff’s Officers, every federal officer from LA within the hour, every other available officer from surrounding towns… Someone points and goes “You 20 guys check Enterprise, you 20 go to Avis…” It’s just good legwork expedited by an abundance of manpower. An incident like this will tend to make most companies cooperative even if they would normally require a subpoena. There is no central database for car rentals that police can look up. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/277 "2015-12-04T14:17:19Z")
I can’t tell from the various new accounts, but how did the police find the shooters? I first heard about it while the police were at the scene and investigating, then the next morning I heard that the shooters had been killed. How did they discover the connection? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/278 "2015-12-04T14:25:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I can’t tell from the various new accounts, but how did the police find the shooters? I first heard about it while the police were at the scene and investigating, then the next morning I heard that the shooters had been killed. > > How did they discover the connection? > > Regards, > Shodan Survivors reported that Farook had a argument at the party and left angrily, and identified him as the shooter. He was the prime suspect from the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/279 "2015-12-04T14:42:08Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > They apparently had the name relatively quick after the incident. It would be very easy to look up if he had a car registered to him. After that you have 350 San Bernardino police officers, 2,000 San Bernardino Sheriff’s Officers, every federal officer from LA within the hour, every other available officer from surrounding towns… Someone points and goes “You 20 guys check Enterprise, you 20 go to Avis…” It’s just good legwork expedited by an abundance of manpower. An incident like this will tend to make most companies cooperative even if they would normally require a subpoena. > > There is no central database for car rentals that police can look up. OK, thanks, that makes sense. After I posted, last night I texted with a buddy of mine who works in IT security at a rental car company. He suggested about the same thing – the police must have a playbook for this kind of thing that includes having people immediately calling up the car rental places, airlines, whatever, and running the name past them. There are only a few big rental companies, so you can check them off the list pretty quick. I’m a tech guy, so I immediately thought of a technology solution instead of a “get on the phone!” solution. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/280 "2015-12-04T15:12:25Z")
I wonder if they paid for the insurance or figured their credit card would cover it? And did they prepay for a tank of gas? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242.md?page=15)