# Another Mass Shooting (San Bernardino) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 2, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242 "2015-12-02T19:58:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/301 "2015-12-04T19:10:39Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > But on the other hand, I would not be surprised if Farook really believed that Islam is a peaceful religion. Violent people tend to see themselves as acting in self-defense. I wouldn’t be surprised by a lot of things, but I’m not going on the word of a constantly evangelizing, born again Messianic Jew who compares Obama to Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/302 "2015-12-04T19:18:28Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Here is an [argument](http://www.jta.org/2015/12/04/news-opinion/united-states/slain-messianic-jew-sparred-with-killer-weeks-before-shooting?utm_source=Newsletter+subscribers&utm_campaign=111cca7a5e-Daily_Briefing_12_4_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2dce5bc6f8-111cca7a5e-25320029) between the husband and a Jewish guy at work. So besides a terror attack it is looking to be a hate crime too, I can see that as also being a reason for disliking his workplace. Based on what has been found so far I think the terrorist was planning to do something worse, but his hate made him jump ahead of the main plan. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/303 "2015-12-04T19:19:56Z")
Hating some guy at work doesn’t make it a hate crime. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/304 "2015-12-04T19:30:04Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Based on what has been found so far I think the terrorist was planning to do something worse, but his hate made him jump ahead of the main plan. What a weird mix of personal grudge and Islamic terrorism. It sounds as if the wife was the more ideological of the two. She radicalized her husband, and they made plans for an attack. Then his hatred for his coworkers determined their target. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/305 "2015-12-04T19:37:21Z")
I suspect the office party was supposed to be just the first in a string of targets. Apparently they had unused bombs in their home; they probably intended to go on a multi-day terror spree, not realizing how quickly the cops would track them down. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/306 "2015-12-04T19:37:21Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > > [@buddha\_david](#): > > > > Makes me wonder what kind of person has friends that would join him in a mass shooting on a moment’s notice. Imagine a conversation something like this: > > > > _“Hey George, I’m stepping out to shoot up those jerks who fired me last week! Wanna come with?” > > “Well, I was planning to go on a WoW raid tonight, but what the hell, sure.”_ > > Loyal. Loyal to a fault. Dead loyal. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/307 "2015-12-04T19:44:27Z")
Well the FBI just held a press conference and say they are investigating the attack as an act of terrorism. > **[FBI probes Islamic State, terror links to San Bernardino massacre](https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-isis-20151204-story.html)** > > President Obama vowed Saturday that investigators would "get to the bottom" of the San Bernardino shooting massacre as the FBI investigated links between the shooters and terrorist groups. > [@](#): > > The revelations came as the FBI formally announced they were investigating the shooting spree as an act of terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/308 "2015-12-04T20:14:52Z")
Why did the landlord pry open the plywood barring the door to the apartment and [let the press in](http://mashable.com/2015/12/04/san-bernardino-shooters-apartment-journalists/#XtLldpyhUgqp)? I’m seeing conflicting reports that is in an active crime scene/no it’s not. This isn’t CSI, surely the FBI needs more than a few days to go through everything? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/309 "2015-12-04T20:41:22Z")
Perhaps they offered him money. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/310 "2015-12-04T20:47:35Z")
The FBI has already gone through the home. That’s how we know that they had thousands of rounds of ammo and 12 pipe bombs. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/311 "2015-12-04T21:07:47Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Hating some guy at work doesn’t make it a hate crime. No, but going after someone for their religion does. Just like going after them for their race, sex, sexuality, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/312 "2015-12-04T21:14:23Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > I suspect the office party was supposed to be just the first in a string of targets. Apparently they had unused bombs in their home; they probably intended to go on a multi-day terror spree, not realizing how quickly the cops would track them down. Duh. If you don’t want to be tracked down, don’t start by shooting up a party attended by your co-workers, who will recognize you. Or if you do, make sure not to leave any survivors. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/313 "2015-12-04T21:14:34Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No, but going after someone for their religion does. Just like going after them for their race, sex, sexuality, etc. And? Farouk and his wife killed 14 people, as far as I know only one was a Messianic Jew\*. \*which in case you don’t know, aren’t considered a form of Judaism by basically anyone. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/314 "2015-12-04T21:25:25Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > \*which in case you don’t know, aren’t considered a form of Judaism by basically anyone. I am surprised in my experience how many people who aren’t Jewish do. But I digress. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/315 "2015-12-04T21:31:31Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Why did the landlord pry open the plywood barring the door to the apartment and [let the press in](http://mashable.com/2015/12/04/san-bernardino-shooters-apartment-journalists/#XtLldpyhUgqp)? I’m seeing conflicting reports that is in an active crime scene/no it’s not. This isn’t CSI, surely the FBI needs more than a few days to go through everything? I don’t know the specifics in this case but if it is supposed to be an active crime scene then there should be an officer maintaining control of the place 24/7 until it is no longer an active crime scene. If it is left unattended (even if boarded up) then the chain of custody is broken and anything left in there could not be used anyway. I’m going to assume that because they no longer had physical possession of the scene it was no longer active and turned over to the property owner. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/316 "2015-12-04T21:34:21Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > It sounds as if the wife was the more ideological of the two. She radicalized her husband, and they made plans for an attack. Then his hatred for his coworkers determined their target. If that’s the case, it’s kind of interesting; did she profile him as someone who could be radicalized when looking for someone to marry? Because personally, I can’t imagine ever thinking that shooting up the company holiday party is a good idea. So how far along on the path was he to begin with? I kind of wish they were still alive, so they could be studied. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/317 "2015-12-04T21:49:32Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I am surprised in my experience how many people who aren’t Jewish do. > But I digress. 🙂 Well, I guess I mean anyone who knows anything about their beliefs rather than just their name. To spell it out: they accept Christ as their Lord and Saviour and take the New Testament as gospel. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/318 "2015-12-04T22:09:16Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > On the other hand, “reduced a bit” would be an enormous improvement over the present “accelerating.” Not really, all a shooting needs is 1 gun and 1 shooter. Reducing 300,000,000 guns to 290,000,000 doesn’t improve things much. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/319 "2015-12-04T22:12:15Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I don’t know the specifics in this case but if it is supposed to be an active crime scene then there should be an officer maintaining control of the place 24/7 until it is no longer an active crime scene. If it is left unattended (even if boarded up) then the chain of custody is broken and anything left in there could not be used anyway. I’m going to assume that because they no longer had physical possession of the scene it was no longer active and turned over to the property owner. I saw two articles on this, both on Yahoo News (for what that might be worth), [this one being the more extensive of the two](http://news.yahoo.com/reporters-inexplicably-stampede-san-bernardino-shooter-s-home-182218908.html). The two articles variously did or didn’t mention that somebody offered to pay the landlord (and landlord accepted, I think) to open the place up. There seem to be conflicting stories about whether the police (who? FBI? Local police? Sheriff?) were done with the place and had given control back to the landlord. One article pointed out that forensics investigators might continue to obtain evidence from the scene for some arbitrarily long period of time afterward. Neither article mentioned the place being boarded up, nor anything about prying boards off. Neither mentioned anything about an officer being there, should have been there. Neither mentioned anything about the place being surrounded by yellow “Crime Scene” tape. Such is the state of reporting these days, I guess. Apparently, some vast number of TV News viewers agree, at least, that on the surface this appears to be a clusterfuck of truly Biblical magnitude. The article I linked above lists a whole bunch of tweets to that effect. This tells us that _somewhere_ out there, some common sense is still to be found, even if not there at the scene. ETA: Question for **Loach** : > [@](#): > > I’m going to assume that because they no longer had physical possession of the scene it was no longer active and turned over to the property owner. So, at this stage, is this even plausible? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242/320 "2015-12-04T22:28:36Z")
The article that **ivylass** linked above ([here it is again](http://mashable.com/2015/12/04/san-bernardino-shooters-apartment-journalists/#XtLldpyhUgqp)), includes this tweet: > [@](#): > > CNN’s @StephanieElam says she’s seen “passports, drivers licenses, social security cards…” > > Is there a reason police didn’t take those? > > — Dylan Byers (@DylanByers) December 4, 2015 and these remarks: > [@](#): > > During an afternoon press conference, FBI Los Angeles Assistant Director David Bowdich said that the federal investigation at the property had ended. > > Bowdich said investigators had seized several pieces of evidence from the home but had turned it back over to the owner. My knee-jerk thought, just like so many of those other tweeters, is this just can’t be plausible. I sense that this really is a clusterfuck, and the FBI and FBI Los Angeles Assistant Director David Bowdich are operating in full-CYA mode here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/739242.md?page=17)