# Another of God's great works! \[Haiti earthquake\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936 "2010-01-14T15:09:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/41 "2010-01-15T00:45:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Cite for either claim? > > The only person I’ve seen responding to the Haitian disaster with nastiness is your brother in Christ, Pat Robertson. I think he’s referring to people being nasty to other people in this thread - which notably includes himself, in the very post you quoted. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/42 "2010-01-15T00:54:04Z")
Why does God get credit for inspiring people to help out after a disaster God permitted? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/43 "2010-01-15T00:59:42Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Why does God get credit for inspiring people to help out after a disaster God permitted? Because he’s God. You think it’s good to be the king? Piker. What’s really good is to be God. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/44 "2010-01-15T01:00:32Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Why does God get credit for inspiring people to help out after a disaster God permitted? The able-bodied guy stands by and lets the toddler drown, but he does encourage the guy in the wheelchair to call 911 on his cell phone! ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/45 "2010-01-15T01:50:09Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Why does God get credit for inspiring people to help out after a disaster God permitted? Well, somebody told me today that it was an earthly disaster, so god had nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/46 "2010-01-15T02:12:05Z")
> [@PandaMom](#): > > So, if you have a child, and he grows up and it turns out your son was Hitler, should we all blame YOU for what Hitler did? You created him. You must, by your logic, be responsible for every evil that ever occurred, afterall, you planned to have this child. Possibly. Depends on how I raised him. If, for example, I tell him while he’s growing up that Jews are evil, untrustworthy, dangerous demi-humans, if I blame them for all of societies ills, and tell him how much better off we’d all be if all the Jews were killed, if I’m frequently violent to and around him, so that he learns that violence is an acceptable way to deal with things that he doesn’t like, and he grows up to be a genocidal monster, then yes, I do think I’m to blame. Conversely, if I do my best to raise him to be open minded and accepting, if I expose him to other cultures, and teach him the value of kindness and forgiveness, and he grows up to be a genocidal monster, I’m pretty much off the hook. Because I’d have done everything in my power to make sure my kid grew up to be a decent person. But, being human, my power to do that is limited. I don’t have total control over my son, or the decisions he makes. God, on the other hand, does not suffer that limitation. He is, by definition, all powerful. It is within his power to make it so that no one ever grows up into a genocidal monster, simply through an act of his will. Further, his ability to alter reality at will comes as a part of him being the author of reality. He is, in the Abrahamic traditions, the Creator of the Universe. Earthquakes exist, because he willed it so. Death exists, because he willed it so. Evil itself exists, because he willed it so. So, in the question of responsibility for sorrow and suffering, God pretty much hits the trifecta. He created the concept. He build a universe that accomodates the concept. And he allows the concept to continue to exist, when he could at any moment end it. By every measure, that makes God responsible for it. ---
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/47 "2010-01-15T02:25:08Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > “We don’t know why this happened but we do know that people are suffering and God is commanding us to help them. Let’s get to work.” I’m not so sure about that. God just commanded all these people to be buried in rubble. He has been strongly hinting at grudge against Haiti for some time now. Those trying to dig out buried people are thwarting His Will. But it is nice to hear “We don’t know” from Christians, albeit hypothetical ones. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/48 "2010-01-15T02:32:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What evidence have we of the existence of such a plan? It’s the only way to make the idea of a benevolent, omnipotent God coexist with nasty shit happening to innocents. God \*obviously \*exists, nasty shit happens, therefore He must have a Plan. Quod erat circularum demonstrandum. (and before a murder of nitpickers swoop down on me : nope, I have absolutely no clue as to the grammatical validity of the pig latin I just spouted) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/49 "2010-01-15T02:35:45Z")
Sorry to ruin the sarcastic effect, but I revised added “Haiti earthquake” to the thread title for clarity. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/50 "2010-01-15T03:23:35Z")
> [@CC](#): > > If you believe in God, you have a lot of ‘splainin’ (or rationalizing) to do, Lucy. Why are you picking on Elucidator? I’m not even sure he believes in (a) God. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/51 "2010-01-15T03:34:08Z")
Believers always have a convenient answer, anyway, to the Problem of Evil: God allows us free will. Free will would be meaningless if He were always hovering over us like an overprotective parent, shielding us from harm by nature or each other. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/52 "2010-01-15T03:37:18Z")
> [@PandaMom](#): > > So, if you have a child, and he grows up and it turns out your son was Hitler, should we all blame YOU for what Hitler did? You created him. You must, by your logic, be responsible for every evil that ever occurred, afterall, you planned to have this child. If you have absolutely perfect knowledge beforehand that your kid will be Hitler, then yes, it’s your fault. The usual, tedious analogies to parenthood in these POE debates always fail in light of the the fact that parents aren’t omnimax. The analogies are invalid. The bottom line is that the existence of evil cannot be logically reconciled with the existence of an omnimax God. It is logically impossible for both to exist. This is a theological problem that has never been solved despite thousands of years of motivated trying by all the smartest theologians. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/53 "2010-01-15T03:37:27Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What evidence have we of the existence of such a plan? Cylons. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/54 "2010-01-15T03:37:39Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Only 2 idiots involved in this thread: Pat Robertson and the OP. This is a Warning to refrain from insulting other posters in GD (or anywhere outside the Pit). [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/55 "2010-01-15T03:40:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Believers always have a convenient answer, anyway, to the Problem of Evil: God allows us free will. Free will would be meaningless if He were always hovering over us like an overprotective parent, shielding us from harm by nature or each other. This is only superficially a convincing answer. Aside from the fact that the concept of “free will” is logical nonsense in itself, God also has the power to create only individuals who will freely choose good. This does not take away their free will. He isn’t preventing them from being able to choose evil. He’d only have to use his omniscience to only create those who will choose good all by themselves. ETA the free will defense is no answer at all to natural evil, by the way. What’s the reason for childhood leukemia? What does that have to do with free will? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/56 "2010-01-15T03:40:45Z")
**TWEEEEEEET!** This thread started out in MPSIMS and has migrated to GD, but if it does not turn into an actual debate, rather than a litany of sarcastic comments, it is going to get shut down. I have no idea why it was ever started in MPSIMS, but if you folks want to rant, (pro or con belief), then open a thread in the BBQ Pit. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/57 "2010-01-15T04:08:10Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Chefguy this is not the pit and insulting another poster is not allowed. > > Ellen Cherry > MPSIMS Moderator That’s the spirit. Nothing like even-handed moderation. People hurl much worse insults on this board, and no warnings are issued, but you decide this rates one. What a bunch of bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/58 "2010-01-15T04:16:23Z")
Dude, it was in MPSIMS at the time and that’s the land of happy thoughts and positive, supportive posts. I used to spend much of my time there. Then I became less happy, positive, and, especially, supportive. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/59 "2010-01-15T04:19:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Believers always have a convenient answer, anyway, to the Problem of Evil: God allows us free will. Free will would be meaningless if He were always hovering over us like an overprotective parent, shielding us from harm by nature or each other. But what’s free will-y about a natural disaster ? It’s not like you chose to live on the path of a future & unforeseen tsunami, or that your choices (or lack thereof) caused the tsunami. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936/60 "2010-01-15T04:52:49Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > When a massive tragedy like the Haiti earthquake strikes, Christians respond by sending relief and rescue workers, fundraising for survivors and the rebuilding effort, prayer, solidarity, and compassion. Atheists, or at least the ones in this thread, respond with nastiness. Oh, I knew you’d chime in with something like this ITR. So: [http://foundationbeyondbelief.org/node/127](http://foundationbeyondbelief.org/node/127) To make your general, blanket assessment true, should I ask for my $250 back? I mean, we’ve already got a few million going to Haiti sans faith anyway…:rolleyes: Next I’ll hear the Red Cross is Catholic and driven by Jesus. I give annually to Red Cross too. 🙂 But you’re right about MY nastiness in THIS thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-of-gods-great-works-haiti-earthquake/524936.md?page=4)