# Another One for the Memory Hole? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 11, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644 "2004-05-11T16:42:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/61 "2004-05-12T16:47:10Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > Yeah, good work. > > “Quick, get rid of that paint thinner, the cops are on our tail” > > Now, really, why would it be necessary to toss a vial of furniture stripper from the truck? > > And if you have only made a wrong turn, why give false names and fake IDs? > > If it were I that was moving furniture from Florida to Boston, I’d take I-95. > > I-95 is some 200 miles east of Unicoi County, Tennessee. That was some wrong turn. Heh. Heh. Heh. Heh. HEHEHEHEHEEEEHEEEEE. BWAAAAHAHHHAAAAAAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA Hee Hee Hee. Heh. Pshew! Thanks to the laugh, **razorsharp**. Of course, I’m laughing AT you, not with you, but I’ll take a good laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/62 "2004-05-12T17:45:29Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > And only a good “Israel Firster” would characterize a sheriff with a justifiable suspicion of a Israelite, as an ignorant hick. “Isreal Firster” “Neo-Isreal”, you’re just full of made-up terms, aren’t you? Another trait of the conspiracy nutter is the complete and utter inability to ever admit in the slightest way that they might be wrong. So tell us about the Israeli varnish-removing conspiracy, Razorsharp. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/63 "2004-05-12T18:33:44Z")
**EstotericEngima** > [@](#): > > This guy has got to be a troll. [Moderator Hat ON] If you think someone is a troll, report it to the mods, do NOT post your theories about it. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![dook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@dook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dook)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/64 "2004-05-12T18:44:33Z")
> [@emulsified](#): > > [Source](http://www.fox21.com/Global/story.asp?S=1860935&nav=2KPpN3Lt) > > God only knows what furniture these insane terrorists would have stripped if not for the vigilance of Sheriff Harris. That’s pretty obtuse… The point is that whatever they threw out the window, they threw it out during a high speed chase. This isn’t something that is normally done for any other reason than to get rid of evidence. Evidence of what? Who the hell knows, but they were _acting suspiciously_ and just because they are from “our greatest ally” according to doesn’t put them above suspicion. And before you fly off the handle and all but accuse me of being a skinhead racist for saying that “two israelis having paint thinner is suspicious” :rolleyes: , Let me get specific- Suspicious activity includes: Leading the police on a high spead pursuit in a rented vehicle. Throwing evidence out the window. Doing the above while being foreign nationalists. Doing the above while having flight-training materials in their truck. Yes, I think there is a reason to be suspicious. And thank you pravnik for this: > [@](#): > > Israeli organized crime is responsible for most of the MDMA (methylenedioxymethamphetamine) trafficking in the US. Cite to the [Department of Justice](http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs0/668/668t.htm) . That’s my two cents. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/65 "2004-05-12T19:12:31Z")
> [@Alcatraz](#): > > That’s pretty obtuse… The point is that whatever they threw out the window, they threw it out during a high speed chase. This isn’t something that is normally done for any other reason than to get rid of evidence. Evidence of what? Who the hell knows, but they were _acting suspiciously_ . Alcatraz, I doubt seriously anyone is suggesting these two are innocent. But there is a very long leap from: a) “two guys doing something suspicious, possibly drug manufacture could be involved.” to: b) “The Mossad/ZOG/Entire Population of Isreal is plotting to blow up/fly planes into our nuclear power plants because they threw a bottle from a truck and had a pamphlet on flight in their vehicle.” Get it? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/66 "2004-05-12T19:26:22Z")
> [@Alcatraz](#): > > Yes, I think there is a reason to be suspicious. Me too. It was right to stop them. What I and others find silly is the OP’s idea that this incident should have national importance. He’s seeing _something_ here through the slits of his tin-foil helmet, but doesn’t seem to want to come out and say whatever that is. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/67 "2004-05-12T19:27:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, I think there is a reason to be suspicious. For fuck’s sake, suspicious of what? Say, **Alcatraz** maybe you could step into the breach here. Since **Razorsharp** , who has been asked at least five times to spell out his theory on this story, has obstinately refused to do so, how about you give it a whirl? What do you think this is about? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/68 "2004-05-12T19:52:18Z")
I’m going to post this even though **Razorsharp** will ignore it since it doesn’t jive with his grand conspiracy notion. First, high speed chases are all too common. Second, things often get tossed from cars during chases and quite often it is drug related. From this [story:](http://examiner.net/stories/032304/new_032304012.shtml) > [@](#): > > The driver went south on Harris, and someone threw objects from the car near 24th Street and Northern…Police also recovered drugs thrown from the car. And from this [story:](http://www.news-press.com/news/local_state/040422chase.html) > [@](#): > > The pursuing officer reported seeing a white or silver object thrown from the car in the 900 block of Hancock Bridge Parkway…Police found five bags of marijuana in and near the car. The bags weighed 16.6 grams. > > They also found a 9.1-gram bag of crack cocaine in the car, according to the report. Of course it is more fun to play conspiracy theory than to look at what likely happened. Isn’t wild speculation what The Straight Dope is all about? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/69 "2004-05-12T20:42:18Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Isn’t wild speculation what The Straight Dope is all about? God, I hope not. I’d’ve thought the Straight Dope was all about cutting through mountains of bullshit to get at the facts. Razorsharp tried his damndest to build a mountain, but there just wasn’t enough bullshit for a foundation. Heck, I have no problem believing that some Jews (who might also be Israelis) are up to all kinds of illegal shenanigans in and around the U.S. Expanding beyond that to hint at terrorist plots, though, and you’re in Oliver Stone country. Heck, I once considered applying as military air navigator. I hope nobody considers _me_ a terrorist. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/70 "2004-05-12T21:15:54Z")
I’m having trouble wrapping my brain around what an “Israeli terrorist” would _want_. I mean, are they saying “Hey, U.S.A! Quit supplying us with foreign aid and military assistance!”? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/71 "2004-05-12T21:54:50Z")
Still trying to help this along a bit: > [@](#): > > Let me get specific- Suspicious activity includes: > > Leading the police on a high spead pursuit in a rented vehicle. Because they were carrying false IDs, which would be reason enough on its own to want to evade police. Which they did, for all of three miles, before they decided to just give up. > [@](#): > > Throwing evidence out the window. No, throwing a vial of fluid out the window. You can call it evidence if, and only if, you can coherently state what it is supposed to evidence **of**. > [@](#): > > Doing the above while being foreign nationalists. Foreign **nationals**. We have no idea what sort of nationalist tendencies they may have. > [@](#): > > Doing the above while having flight-training materials in their truck. No, they had an advertising brochure in their truck. Having the Pilot’s Manual for, say, a Beech King Air, or a book titled _Hoiw to Fly, but Not Land, a Large Commercial Aircraft_ would constitute having flight-training materials in their truck. Further comments: **Razorsharp** and **Alcatraz** find it significant that they were driving a Ryder truck, and carrying a vial of flammable fluid, which apparently leads him to believe they were going to make a fertilizer bomb out of it. Well, the fluid was not diesel, which is what you would use with a fertilizer bomb, and why the hell would anyone carry around a small vial of diesel anyway? But, as another poster has noted, the fluid was paint stripper. So, just what is the significance? At the same time, **Razor** and **Alky** apparently think the flight training brochure is significant, indicating that maybe the guys were going take flying lessons and eventually to dive a plane into some target or other. Well, which is it? Truck bomb or airplane bomb? Or, wait for it, they were gonna build a fertilizer bomb, transport it to a plane, then crash the plane into something, right? Well, where’s the fertilizer, aside from the OP, of course? In any event, why the hell would two people who **R** and **A** apparently wants us to believe are highly trained Mossad _agents provocateurs_ attract attention to themselves by speeding and drunkenly weaving around in a rented truck? So, **Razor** , **Alky** , babes, is this more or less what you had in mind? If not, how about correcting me? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/72 "2004-05-13T00:06:04Z")
This guy seems to have hit on a different angle: > [@](#): > > **Israelis in Moving Vans: 21st Century UFO’s?** > > In the wake of the latest incident, we have discovered several other less-publicized post-9/11 incidents involving Israelis in moving vans. > > A July 9, 2002 story in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported that a Wisconsin couple had been victimized by an Israeli mover, Oshri Cohen, 30, who was charged with felony common law robbery in Davie County, North Carolina. > > Eventually sixteen Florida-based moving companies, mostly owned and operated by Israeli nationals, were accused of using “strong-arm tactics.” 74 employees were accused of wire fraud, extortion, false billing, money laundering and conspiracy. > > “Florida moving companies indicted in alleged scheme to inflate prices,” read the headline on a March 5, 2003 AP account. “The companies, which operated under 42 different names, all declined comment, had no published telephone listings or didn’t answer calls from the Associated Press.” > > The indictments came after a nearly two-year FBI investigation. > > Miami-based Advanced Moving Systems’ owner Zion Rokah and his employees were charged with 60 counts of extortion, conspiracy to commit wire and mail fraud and making a false bill of lading. The indictments against Rokah also include a forfeiture provision for at least $1 million, two parcels of land, four moving trucks and five bank accounts. > > “It’s all against the Jews. The police are lying. They are corrupt,” Rokah stated in a May 4, 2002 story in The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. He claimed his company, based in Sunrise, Fla., a suburb of Fort Lauderdale, was “being targeted by a police network that has targeted Israeli-owned moving companies,” and being “victimized by stupid, small town, redneck police” who “hate Jews and strangers.” [http://www.madcowprod.com/index53bb.html](http://www.madcowprod.com/index53bb.html) ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/73 "2004-05-13T00:40:59Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > I’m having trouble wrapping my brain around what an “Israeli terrorist” would _want_. I mean, are they saying “Hey, U.S.A! Quit supplying us with foreign aid and military assistance!”? 😕 Perhaps **Razorsharp** thinks they were planning on impersonating Arab terrorists, to implicate other nations. After all, many believe 9/11 was actually done by Jewish agents. Of course, we’ll never know what **Razorsharp** actually thinks this incident is about, because he’ll never tell us. Maybe, if he tells us, he has to kill us. He’s saving our lives! ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/74 "2004-05-13T12:20:27Z")
> [@Mr. Miskatonic](#): > > “Isreal Firster” “Neo-Isreal”, you’re just full of made-up terms, aren’t you? I can only take credit for “Neo-Israel”. Quite apropos, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/75 "2004-05-13T12:22:35Z")
And the fix is on: > [@](#): > > ERWIN — Two Israeli nationals being held since Saturday in the Unicoi County Jail after taking Sheriff Kent Harris on a 2 1/2-mile high speed chase in the Flag Pond community, following Saturday’s Ramp Festival, face a deportation hearing, Harris said Tuesday. > Bonds for the men were set late Tuesday afternoon in Unicoi County Sessions Court on state charges. Judge David Shultz set a secured bond of $2,500 for Almaliach Naor, 22, and a $5,000 secured bond for Shnuel Daran, 19, both of Tel Aviv, Israel. > Harris said even if the two made the cash bonds, "INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service) has issued two orders to detain the men, or ‘holds’ on them, until they can be taken to a INS facility to be questioned. Obviously, **the state charges we are holding them on may become moot if they are deported back to Israel,"** he said. [http://www.johnsoncitypress.com/default.asp?SectionID=DETAIL&ID=34491](http://www.johnsoncitypress.com/default.asp?SectionID=DETAIL&ID=34491) So, one of the “movers” just happens to be the son of a top Likud official. > [@](#): > > News that one of the two Israeli ‘movers’ belonged to that country’s political elite might have proven useful in the criminal investigation underway in rural North Carolina and Tennessee, where the two men led authorities on a high-speed chase in a rented moving van last weekend. > However, the investigation was halted Wednesday, after the men were released from Unicol County Jail to the custody of federal officials from the INS, where they face only a deportation hearing. > [http://www.madcowprod.com](http://www.madcowprod.com) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/76 "2004-05-13T12:46:19Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > I can only take credit for “Neo-Israel”. Quite apropos, don’t you think? No, its really, really dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/77 "2004-05-13T13:03:36Z")
This is getting pretty old, **Razor**. Just TELL US wtf nefarious conspiracy you think these folks are up to, will you? We tried to guess, were any of us close? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/78 "2004-05-13T13:43:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Two Israeli men arrested as a result of the chase remained jailed Tuesday afternoon. Immigration officials planned to hold them for a hearing because of a problem with their passports, said Unicoi County Sheriff Kent Harris. **Harris said the men had tourist passports, but they were apparently working in the U.S. moving furniture.** > > Witnesses told authorities they saw someone toss a brown bottle from the truck during the police chase. The men maintain they did not throw out the container. > > Harris said tests showed the bottle contained a mixture of Astromid 18, Gluconic acid and water. Astromid 18 is a latex stripper/cleaner, according to Harris. > > Gluconic acid is “a slightly modified version of glucose (a sugar),” from a safety standpoint, equivalent to vinegar, according to Brad Sturgeon, assistant professor in chemistry at Western Carolina University. [http://cgi.citizen-times.com/cgi-bin/story/regional/54694](http://cgi.citizen-times.com/cgi-bin/story/regional/54694) ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/79 "2004-05-13T21:08:46Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > This is getting pretty old, **Razor**. Just TELL US wtf nefarious conspiracy you think these folks are up to, will you? We tried to guess, were any of us close? I don’t have any idea what the Israelis were up to, but, from what little has been reported, it seems that they were up to no good. And now that the Feds have swooped in and taken custody of the criminals, the state investigation has been thwarted. What I do realize is, the establishment media will supress information that is not favorable to Israel’s masquerade as America’s most beloved ally. For instance, the Israelis that were caught high-fivin’ and dancin’ the Hora while videotaping the World Trade Center crumbling to the ground, taking the lives of 3000 innocent Americans. Of course, it was newsworthy when it was being reported that the men were “arab-looking”, but when it turned out to be five Israelis, then the story goes down the “memory-hole”. So, Israelis celebrating the attack on the WTC in not newsworthy? Hell, I expect that kind of behavior from America’s enemys. What I don’t expect, and what most certainly is newsworthy, is that type of behavior from so-called allies. Especially allies that have been the beneficiaries of more aid, thanks to the American taxpayer, than any other nation. Aid that has provided modern-day Israel a comparatively high standard of living. Which brings us to the reason that the establishment media supresses information not favorable to Neo-Israel’s image. The establishment media realizes that the reporting of such incidents could lead to the asking of some uncomfortable questions, such as, “How did five Israelis, who were here illegally, know what they were cheering for?” and could ultimately lead to many Americans objecting as to how their tax-dollars are being spent with regard to foreign aid. But, you can bet your last shekel, that had it been a group of men celebrating the attack on America that the establishment media could link to a “right-wing extremist group”, the establishment media would still yet occasionally remind the populace of the treachery. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644/80 "2004-05-13T21:27:36Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > I don’t have any idea what the Israelis were up to, but, from what little has been reported, it seems that they were up to no good. But do you have even any remotely plausible theory of what Israel would have against the country that gives it so much money and arms and support? Don’t you see why it’s so silly? Why would they bite the hand that feeds them? For what possible gain? You have neither evidence, nor a motive. You have to have at least _one_ of those things before you can have an even remotely possible theory. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-one-for-the-memory-hole/244644.md?page=5)