# Another perspective on "nice guys" and the women who won't date them **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 14, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457 "2009-05-14T21:14:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/201 "2009-05-21T23:08:19Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Someone would make a killing in the market if they developed a gadget that could detect whether a woman standing next to you is in the fertile time of her menstrual cycle or not.😃 When I worked for a large food company, they had a sniffer/taster machine that could do amazing things with food. I think you’re on to something here, and barring cost, I feel that a device could be made to do just that. You would just have to worry about proximity and getting caught. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/202 "2009-05-22T00:35:49Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > When I worked for a large food company, they had a sniffer/taster machine that could do amazing things with food. I think you’re on to something here, and barring cost, I feel that a device could be made to do just that. You would just have to worry about proximity and getting caught. Actually, I just thought of a possible way around having to have a “sniffer” device. If researchers found other characteristics that are also strongly related to a woman being in her fertile period (e.g. the color of clothing, shade of lipstick, the style of hair, etc), then you could use those to determine, statistically, whether a given woman you see in public is in her fertile period or not. (Of course, if people actually started using this info, I can see women changing their habits to throw people off) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/203 "2009-05-22T16:57:52Z")
Why not just skip all the science stuff and sidle up to a babe, purring ‘Hey baby, when was your last period?’ I’m pretty sure hormonal birth control throws everything out of whack, anyway. According to [this article](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=birth-control-pills-affect-womens-taste) (hefty grain of salt) > [@](#): > > A study published in August in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B, however, suggests that women on the pill undergo a shift in preference toward men who share similar MHC genes. The female subjects were more likely to rate these genetically similar men’s scents (via a T-shirt the men had worn for two nights) as pleasant and desirable after they went on the pill as compared with before. Although no one knows why the pill affects attraction, some scientists believe that pregnancy—or in this case, the hormonal changes that mimic pregnancy—draws women toward nurturing relatives. > > Women who start or stop taking the pill, then, may be in for some relationship problems. A study published last year in Psychological Science found that women paired with MHC-similar men are less sexually satisfied and more likely to cheat on their partners than women paired with MHC-dissimilar men. So a woman on the pill, for example, might be more likely to start dating a MHC-similar man, but he could ultimately leave her less sexually satisfied. Then if she goes off the pill during the relationship, the accompanying hormonal changes will draw her even more strongly toward more MHC-dissimilar men. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/204 "2009-05-22T21:17:20Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > Why not just skip all the science stuff and sidle up to a babe, purring ‘Hey baby, when was your last period?’ Should work great! You should recommend the idea to the [PUA](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_community) community. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/205 "2009-05-22T21:47:46Z")
Considering some of the cheese the PUA community employs, I wouldn’t be surprised if such a technique was employed. However briefly, as word of black eyes starts to get around. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Altair33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@Altair33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Altair33)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/206 "2009-05-22T23:19:54Z")
I don’t have time to read this entire thread, but it seems clear to me that this topic can be summarized by a basic understanding of evolution and the factors that make men attractive mates in an evolutionary sense. And the fact is that “niceness” isn’t high on that list. Charisma is high on the list in a society which values charisma, because it means a man can influence people, advance in society, and put food on the table. Anyway, I processed and accepted this information when I was around 18 years old. Why it still confounds and surprises adult men is unclear to me. I guess I would be classified as a non-alpha, “nice” and intelligent guy, and I accepted at an early age that the captain of the football team was going to get more girls than me. Just part of the world we live in- I have long since adjusted my expectations accordingly and recommend others do the same. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/207 "2009-05-22T23:30:07Z")
> [@Altair33](#): > > Anyway, I processed and accepted this information when I was around 18 years old. Why it still confounds and surprises adult men is unclear to me. Some process and accept this information at 15. You figured it at 18. Some will figure it out at 22, and some at 37. It’s all relative. The fact that you figured it at 18, only means that the 15 yo was looking at you wondering, “took him long enough, wonder why it was unclear to him.” ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/208 "2009-05-22T23:32:15Z")
> [@Altair33](#): > > Anyway, I processed and accepted this information when I was around 18 years old. Why it still confounds and surprises adult men is unclear to me. I guess I would be classified as a non-alpha, “nice” and intelligent guy, and I accepted at an early age that the captain of the football team was going to get more girls than me. Just part of the world we live in- I have long since adjusted my expectations accordingly and recommend others do the same. The biggest problem from the male perspective is all these wymen hooking up with jerks, yet proclaiming what they really want is a “nice” man. The non-jerks figure these wymen actually mean what they say, continue to act non-jerk like, yet they still arent getting laid. Not surprisingly frustration ensues. Moral? Don’t listen to em. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/209 "2009-05-22T23:41:33Z")
> [@Altair33](#): > > I don’t have time to read this entire thread, but it seems clear to me that this topic can be summarized by a basic understanding of evolution and the factors that make men attractive mates in an evolutionary sense. And the fact is that “niceness” isn’t high on that list. Charisma is high on the list in a society which values charisma, because it means a man can influence people, advance in society, and put food on the table. > > Anyway, I processed and accepted this information when I was around 18 years old. Why it still confounds and surprises adult men is unclear to me. I guess I would be classified as a non-alpha, “nice” and intelligent guy, and I accepted at an early age that the captain of the football team was going to get more girls than me. Just part of the world we live in- I have long since adjusted my expectations accordingly and recommend others do the same. Yeah, I realized every single guy wants a 5 ft 9 bleached blond with DD breasts and bee-stung lips, so I just put on a pair of sweatpants and started writing to prisoners. Not every girl wants to date the captain of the football team. Yes, some women are bad judges of character, and many needed a ‘bad boy’ or ‘go-getter’ through which to live vicariously (not to mention blame things on – if you’re horny but afraid of a bad rep, why not get ‘used’ by a notorious slut?), but now that sisters are doing it for themselves… eh, not so much. Even the successful women who insist on ‘dating up,’ you’ve got to at least consider that some have had bad experiences with guys resenting them for being more successful. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/210 "2009-05-22T23:53:28Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > The biggest problem from the male perspective is all these wymen hooking up with jerks, yet proclaiming what they really want is a “nice” man. > > The non-jerks figure these wymen actually mean what they say, continue to act non-jerk like, yet they still arent getting laid. > > Not surprisingly frustration ensues. > > Moral? Don’t listen to em. I think you and **Altair** are seeing having charisma and charming personality as being incompatible with being a nice human being (and a non-jerk). Charisma is not the same as jerkiness, and non-jerks are not incapable of having a personality. Read above… when women say “you’re too nice”, after one or two dates, it is probably their way of breaking it up nicely (pardon the word). They do not want (nor should they be expected to) explain the reasons (however idiotic) that they didn’t want to continue, but it was most likely not just “being too nice”. Women who go on a lot of first dates and none of them lead to anything… may have something to look inside themselves instead of blaming the other half. But the same thing applies to guys. ---
**Author:** ![Altair33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@Altair33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Altair33)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/211 "2009-05-23T00:12:02Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Some process and accept this information at 15. You figured it at 18. Some will figure it out at 22, and some at 37. It’s all relative. The fact that you figured it at 18, only means that the 15 yo was looking at you wondering, “took him long enough, wonder why it was unclear to him.” Well, I suspected it at 13 or 14, but I had to give it the good old high school try anyway, didn’t I? 🙂 Once I got into law school I could see an immediate increase in the interest level of the girls I know and once I got my first semester grades and did very well I could see it go even higher. One girl in particular had kept me at arm’s lengths for a while and you could almost see the wheels turning in her head, thinking, “wow, this guy is going to be making some good money in a few years- maybe I’d better have sex with him.” I’m under no illusions, however, that if I didn’t have good earning potential, my being a “nice guy” would get me nowhere with women. But then, I know that the girls I’m interested in by some magical coincidence happen to be physically attractive, so I know that I’m in no position to criticize the women of the world on this issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457.md?page=10)