# Another perspective on "nice guys" and the women who won't date them **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 14, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457 "2009-05-14T21:14:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/61 "2009-05-15T17:14:47Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > This seems to imply to me, “Hey grandma. Lower yer frickin’ standards already.” > > It’s as if to say something is clearly wrong with these women, which is why they’ve been single all this time. Maybe they should stop rejecting men because they’re nice! Which is also absurd. These guys aren’t being rejected out of niceness, for one, and for another, I wouldn’t assume a woman is a “beggar” because she is single at 50. As I implied earlier, if you are failing at something for half a century, you are probably going about it in the wrong way. So maybe that person needs to either figure out why they are rejecting all those guys or why they are only attracting a certain type of rejectable guy in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/62 "2009-05-15T17:20:16Z")
But you just said there are reasons someone can be single at 50 other than simply not being able to find a compatible partner. Some people \*haven’t \*been looking for a mate steadily for a half century. They’re widowed, or have spent the past 5 years willingly being single, or some other such. But yes, as a rule I would agree with you that if you’ve been trying something diligently for decades and still can’t get it done right, you probably suck at it. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/63 "2009-05-15T17:44:56Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yeah, I get it. It’s still an inappropriate comment though. > > I’ll have to go back through the archives and see how that whole thing actually started. I think you’ve gotten WAY better and much more mature in your opinions of women. You aren’t in danger of morphing into Phil Donahue or anything yet, though. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/64 "2009-05-15T17:51:19Z")
> [@Cazzle](#): > > You never owe a stranger an explanation for not accepting their advances. > You are never owed an explanation if you make advances toward a person you don’t know and they turn you down. > You are completely wrong for suggesting that she should have to share her personal grief with a man she doesn’t know because he might be “having trouble with his confidence lately”. Thank you On the day in question I was exhausted by the brief errand I had just run, exhausted by endless professations of sympathy, and tired of people pretending they knew what I felt at a time when I was convinced no one could know what I felt. I understand I could not expect the guy on the street to know all this but I knew if I told him I had just buried ( well, cremated ) my husband that I would burst into tears. I believe I said “No thank you” and tried to move on as quick as I could towards my ultimate goal of collapsing on my sofa - but then he went off. Yes, maybe I could’ve been nicer and explained everything and actually made a new friend for life like someone actually suggested. This idea might have had some merit this had happened in the 18th century when you met a limited number of eligible men in a lifetime, but I have no shortage of good friends and thanks to inventions like cars and the Internet I can meet countless new friends and lovers whenever I want. And I wasn’t nasty, just abrupt. Once again I can think of many times when I attempted to start a casual conversation with a friend or neighbor only to realize that my timing was really bad and they had just stormed out of their place after a fight with the spouse or something, causing them to be abrupt or even rude to me. I never took this personally, I just wrote it off as bad timing. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/65 "2009-05-15T18:05:21Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > …and was responding to the thoughts circling in his brain. I have to watch that sometimes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/66 "2009-05-15T18:14:00Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > The last time I offered an explanation “Sorry, I’m just not interested in dating now.” that turned into him giving me two out of the above examples and a few more negotiation tactics. I hardly think I am the exception to the rule as my friends have experienced this type of thing too. You’re not. The worst example I can think of is a friend of mine who volunteers at a free clinic with a cafe downstairs and regularly witnesses guys hitting on women going in for pregnancy tests and STD screenings (some after getting raped) – not a great time for romance. And apparently the classic ‘Baby, you should smile more’ line is as common as ever. I think we’ve all witnessed the magical transformation before – how quickly we can turn from hot women they want to date to fat ugly bitches, sometimes with just the shake of our heads. I’ve said this before, but there’s something about being female and in public that apparently means you’re up for discussion/grabs (sometimes literaly). I’ve heard it called [Walking While](http://www.feministsdontbakebread.com/2007/09/07/friday-discussion-walking-while-female-and-foolishly-asking-for-violence-to-be-done-upon-you/)[Female](http://www.feministsdontbakebread.com/2007/09/07/friday-discussion-walking-while-female-and-foolishly-asking-for-violence-to-be-done-upon-you/). The only male comparison I can think of is when a guy’s got something on his mind or somewhere to be and has the gall not to stop and chat with a homeless person or panhandler. Anyway, it sucks, because the guys who do this keep women from giving the time to actual nice guys for fear of pissing them off. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/67 "2009-05-15T18:38:38Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Okaay…that’s a bit of a non-sequitur. If you don’t want to discuss the topic, simply opt out like a normal person. I don’t think “non sequitor” is the word you’re looking for, honey. You posted a topic, I’m free to say, IMO, that it’s stupid to bring up again a topic that’s been hashed, re-hashed, and over-hashed over the last few months. I don’t think you’re bringing anywhere close to another perspective to the topic, but you’re so precious to try. And ooooooooo… impugning my normalness. You are such a baaaad boy. I bet you get lots of second dates. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/68 "2009-05-15T18:44:05Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > … I’ve heard it called [Walking While](http://www.feministsdontbakebread.com/2007/09/07/friday-discussion-walking-while-female-and-foolishly-asking-for-violence-to-be-done-upon-you/)[Female](http://www.feministsdontbakebread.com/2007/09/07/friday-discussion-walking-while-female-and-foolishly-asking-for-violence-to-be-done-upon-you/). The only male comparison I can think of… Well stated. I’m male, and really can’t believe the constant hassle and crap that women deal with from men. It looks just like when I travel and walk through a street market in a poor country. If you stop to give polite discussion and banter to all of the advances, then you’ll never make it through your day. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/69 "2009-05-15T18:58:16Z")
> [@niblet\_head](#): > > …IMO, that it’s stupid to bring up again a topic that’s been hashed, re-hashed, and over-hashed over the last few months. Lots of topics like that here. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/70 "2009-05-15T19:07:52Z")
Yep, and when I feel like I wanna comment on it, I do. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/71 "2009-05-15T19:09:16Z")
What I’m getting from this is that it’s a bad idea to be the nicest and most thoughtful guy you can be on the first date. When you’re trying to make the best first impression, throw in a dash of nasty. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/72 "2009-05-15T19:17:02Z")
Slight derailment ahead: My worst Walking While Female incident was about three years ago when a man threatened to have his dog attack me if I didn’t give him my phone number. The threat came after screaming “Hey girl!” at me for about one city block. I’m not sure if he was serious about having the dog bite me or not, but he sure as hell followed me for a while and kept giving length on the leash. I was freaking terrified. Not a joke. Not fucking funny. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/73 "2009-05-15T19:26:09Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > The only male comparison I can think of is when a guy’s got something on his mind or somewhere to be and has the gall not to stop and chat with a homeless person or panhandler. That’s the exact thing I’ve been thinking of posting. Men, when a beggar asks you for money and you don’t want to give him any, do you stop and explain why, giving him a detailed explanation of your financial status and philosophical stance on poverty? Do you turn out your pockets to PROVE you don’t have any spare change? And when you do walk away and he yells, “You rich bastard! You just won’t help me because you’re a RACIST!”, do you consider that an appropriate reaction and realize that you should have been nicer to him? Even if it would have made you miss your train and be late for work? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/74 "2009-05-15T19:41:43Z")
Well, I always offer panhandlers a cigarette. That means you should offer these poor souls a handjob or something, right? Yes, I’m kidding. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/75 "2009-05-15T20:19:56Z")
> [@niblet\_head](#): > > Yep, and when I feel like I wanna comment on it, I do. Why the hell is it so difficult for you to stop acting like a child? How many different people are going to have to tell you you’re being an asshole before you stop thread shitting and go somewhere else? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/76 "2009-05-15T20:27:51Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > What I’m getting from this is that it’s a bad idea to be the nicest and most thoughtful guy you can be on the first date. When you’re trying to make the best first impression, throw in a dash of nasty. Throw in a dash of indifferent. Not nasty. Nasty, whether its telling her she is fat, or telling her your last girlfriend was fat - is not going to go over… Indifferent…“this was fun…I’ll call you again sometime” lends an air of excitement to the whole thing. “Does he really like me?” And keeps you from wondering if you let the puppy in, are you going to end up married to it and miserable out of pity, or having to send it to the shelter because he keeps peeing on your rug. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/77 "2009-05-15T20:42:32Z")
> [@niblet\_head](#): > > I don’t think “non sequitor” is the word you’re looking for, honey. You posted a topic, I’m free to say, IMO, that it’s stupid to bring up again a topic that’s been hashed, re-hashed, and over-hashed over the last few months. I don’t think you’re bringing anywhere close to another perspective to the topic, but you’re so precious to try. > > And ooooooooo… impugning my normalness. You are such a baaaad boy. I bet you get lots of second dates. [Here ya go.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11145141#post11145141) ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/78 "2009-05-15T20:48:47Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Why the hell is it so difficult for you to stop acting like a child? How many different people are going to have to tell you you’re being an asshole before you stop thread shitting and go somewhere else? I don’t think I am thread shitting. I also don’t think I’m acting like a child. I’m sorry you feel I am, but that is not the case. Acknowleding the fact that, yeah, many topics get re-hashed here, and most I don’t care about, but this one bugs me? That’s threadshitting? That’s acting like a child? Let me put it better for you, like a good girl should. **Parental** - yeah, I know. But this topic in particular gets under my skin because it indicts women as a class. It is simply not true that all women do anything, nor do all men. I would be just as annoyed and hepped up if some woman started yet another thread that utterly misunderstood a common problem in male/female interaction and blamed all men for their short-sightedness and shallowness. Is that better? Who’s telling me I’m acting like an asshole besides you? Well, you and the OP. But if we’re going to talk acting like an asshole, I personally think it’s acting like an asshole to bring up the nice guy topic again and STILL blame women for it. And still not understand what the difference is between a good man with a good sense of self and an immature game player who externalizes their problems. It still paints women as the bad guy in the scenario, even when reasonable adults understand the difference between a mewling pile of insecurity and maybe someone who needs to believe in himself more. Now, some people get annoyed with thread after thread of kitten pics. Some with dating issues. Some with job problems. Some with Macs vs. PCs. I get annoyed with the ‘nice guy’ threads. You don’t like it? Well, no one put a gun to your head and made you read my posts. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/79 "2009-05-15T20:50:26Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > [Here ya go.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11145141#post11145141) Horrors. :rolleyes: I don’t care if you call me a cunt. ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457/80 "2009-05-15T20:59:00Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > What I’m getting from this is that it’s a bad idea to be the nicest and most thoughtful guy you can be on the first date. When you’re trying to make the best first impression, throw in a dash of nasty. I knew some guy was going to post this. Most guys make the mistake of trying to be extra nice, which makes them “nice” rather than nice, and their not-surprising rejection makes them whine that women don’t really want nice, blah blah. It is equally a mistake to react by thinking you need to be a prick sometimes. The point is you’re not supposed to force anything, whether it be super nice or super nasty. (If you’re naturally a doormat or asshole, that’s fine, knock yourself out.) I really don’t understand it. You force nice or nasty, it likely won’t get you a second date. If it does, it means she likes you being fake nice or fake nasty, and congratulations! you need to act that way forever more or she’ll wonder why you changed. If she ever realizes you were faking your personality, she’ll dump you. You bring this all on yourself when you pretend to be something you’re not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-perspective-on-nice-guys-and-the-women-who-wont-date-them/496457.md?page=5)