I live in Scandinavia, that socialist hellhole with exorbitant taxes. To the best of my knowledge, income tax over here (total tax, not the highest bracket tax rate) is some 30-40%. That covers everything. Health, social security, schools, public universities and colleges, major infrastructure, etc. etc. etc.
Let’s take a middle number, say 35%. A person earning $57k per year would pay $20k in total income tax. So your health insurance costs about the same as what a median income person here would pay in total income taxes. And if they or their partner gor sick, their biggest cost would be parking fees at the hospital and snacks from the hospital cafe for stress eating.
To be fair- my former employer is paying most of it, not me. If I remember correctly why I posted that, it was in response to someone mentioning how little they paid for some medical treatment and hating to think how many hundreds or thousands of dollars it would cost in the US. But think it’s important to understand that insurance coverage is extremely variable in the US. I have very good coverage, with fairly low copays and and in 35 years, there have been only two tests my insurance has not approved (and in both those cases they approved another test ). Another thing that I think it’s important to understand is that most people don’t understand that in some sense, they are paying the full premium - sure, only $ 500/month might be coming out of my paycheck . But if my employer wasn’t paying the other $1500 a month (price has surely gone up) they would have more funds available to pay me. But people don’t see that - they think universal coverage will cost a lot but they don’t account for the money currently being paid to insurance companies. And they are happy with their own personal coverage so they don’t put that much pressure on the politicians. It would almost be better if we all had bad coverage, because then something might actually be done about it.
Had a minor medical problem this weekend, and since I was in Denver anyway I decided to go to the Denver VA ER to get it taken care of.
Since I’m already in the VA system there was zero paperwork and cost to me was $0. Took a bit of time, but that was mostly waiting for a delivery from the pharmacy, waiting to see if the medicine had any effect, then another delivery from the pharmacy for some medicine to go.
It was easier than ordering a coffee at Starbucks.
I would happily, gladly, joyfully take the $800 I’m wasting in health insurance (still need insurance so my wife can be covered) and pay it in taxes instead if everyone could have the same healthcare I received.
I’m not saying they would suddenly give me a $1500/ month raise if universal healthcare came in tomorrow- but over the past 35 years, they surely took the cost of total compensation including benefits into account when determining pay increases.
Well, yeah, when you put it that way the US system seems pretty bad.
But you forget, in the US when someone with insurance gets sick, they might not go to the hospital because it’s still potentially thousands of dollars out of pocket for treatment.
Also bear in mind that most — if not all — of that $1500 a month is a deduction from the employer’s income at tax time. Assuming that the employer actually pays taxes, which many US companies don’t.
Not sure I understand your question. But if they were suddenly freed from paying that $1500 per month, I’m pretty sure the guys at the top of the food chain would see it (and treat it) as a business expense being reduced, with a cost savings that they could pocket…
I also DO understand that IRL, it would be a lot more complex than the expense just magically vanishing.
JFTR, and apropos of nothing in particular, I’m in favor of a transition to a universal single-payer healthcare system. Just, I get cynical sometimes. Jaded, even.
And equally greedy guys at the top of the food chain at other companies would have their business expenses reduced and wonder if they could use that to poach your coworkers with a better deal.
Understood. I’m pretty cynical too but I’ve seen a lot of cases where basic supply and demand economics suddenly stops being relevant when the US health care system needs defending.
Look at it as me preaching at your audience rather than shouting at you for saying something cynical.
As an example, in the last five years I have paid $15,000 in my share of insurance premiums and over $10,000 in deductibles and non covered medical expenses.
My employer has paid about $45,000 in premiums, and the insurer has paid less than $5,000 in covered costs (most of which I had to get a regulator involved to get them to pay). 100% of what they have paid is screenings (annual checkups, mammograms and a colonoscopy) and maintenance prescriptions (the last is $40/year)
This is for three people, me, my wife and our child.
And I have GOOD insurance. Many of my coworkers would literally take up arms if you tried to give them NHS or OHP style health coverage.
On the other hand my parents have “consumed” over half a million dollars in Medicare funded healthcare, which would probably cost half or a third of that in Germany.
They are militantly opposed to socialized medicine as well.
Hey, don’t underestimate the impact of those “health care” costs!
When I went to the ER a few years ago with chest pains, I figured I’d just be there for an hour or two, so I parked in the ER parking lot. Turned out I was having a mild heart attack right there and then! I was admitted and in the hospital for five days for diagnosis and the evaluation of various surgical options. After an angiogram and then relatively minor heart surgery, I was discharged. Total hospital cost: $0. Parking cost: more than $100!
The smarter thing would have been to call an ambulance, since driving in that condition wasn’t the smartest thing to do (obviously I didn’t know that at the time). In Ontario, there is usually a nominal co-pay of $45 for an ambulance, which is waived under a variety of circumstances.
When I hear of Americans being billed thousands of dollars in some cases for an ambulance, in addition to all the other problems with their benighted health care system, I’m just appalled.
Of course, part of the reason they aren’t paying taxes is the deduction from income for health care costs. So, if you hold your head just right during a partial eclipse it kind of looks like shitty public health care for those employees.
Me too. Last month I had kidney surgery, and they had me come in the day before to spend the night (for an earlier start in the morning, I assume?). I was there for three days, at a total cost of $47: $13 per night for the room, plus two times $4 for train tickets there and back. The same surgery 15 years ago in the US was crazy expensive, with invoices and insurance forms coming in for months afterwards.
As you say, the total taxes plus insurance premiums between the US and Sweden is comparable, but the peace of mind and stress-free living of universal healthcare is so, so worth it.
Yep. And while money is fungible so those deductions from income for the business can legitimately be considered as public support for health care, I think it would be much better/fairer to collect the taxes and then spend the money on health care for all citizens, instead of just those (like me) fortunate enough to work for a large corporation with a pretty good union that negotiated benefits that flowed to “managers” like me (I was in IT).
Let’s face it; If corporations were allowed to chain you to your desk and make you work 18 hours a day and feed you thin gruel, that’s exactly what they’d do. And still complain about your “poor attitude”
To play Devil’s advocate, there’s a possibility that some of those savings could go into higher wages if it looks like it would benefit the bottom line in the long run in employee retention and talent level.
But that’s still being done with an eye toward profit and not due to altruism; this is a business after all.
