# Another pronunciation pitting **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2008, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180 "2008-10-16T12:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/41 "2008-10-17T03:05:10Z")
Are you kidding? Bush say’s _new-cue-lur_. Nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/42 "2008-10-17T03:11:52Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > Are you kidding? > Bush say’s _new-cue-lur_. > Nuff said. Not enough for me to understand your point. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/43 "2008-10-17T03:13:17Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Why anyone gives a damn how other people pronounce words is beyond me, no matter how popular or not the pronunciation is (though, of course, the usages that get bitched about the most are also the most popular, making the bitching the least reasonable). And in the majority of cases, thinking one can infer significant information about intelligence from pronunciation is highly misguided. It was regarding the above. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/44 "2008-10-17T03:17:36Z")
What information about Bush’s intelligence do you think you can reasonably infer from his pronunciation of “nuclear”, a pronunciation he shares with Eisenhower, Mondale, Clinton, and many others? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/45 "2008-10-17T03:23:23Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > Are you kidding? > Bush say’s _new-cue-lur_. > Nuff said. And you misused an apostrophe. Are we required to beat you with a stick now? ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/46 "2008-10-17T03:26:28Z")
Aww, thought I changed that!:smack: Bring on the stick. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/47 "2008-10-17T03:27:25Z")
It’s much less fun when you volunteer! ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/48 "2008-10-17T03:28:31Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > What information about Bush’s intelligence do you think you can reasonably infer from his pronunciation of “nuclear”, a pronunciation he shares with Eisenhower, Mondale, Clinton, and many others? It was a joke. Guess I thought the odds of addressing a Bush basher were pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/49 "2008-10-17T03:30:00Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > It’s much less fun when you volunteer! Okay, well you’ll have to hunt me down then. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/50 "2008-10-17T04:52:18Z")
> [@Dolores Reborn](#): > > I clearly understand that people started pronouncing it that way “once upon a time.” It caught on, and many people say it that way. What I don’t understand is why! Why would you put the extra syllable in there in the first place? That’s essentially the question for which the field of historical linguistics exists (the phonetic branch of same, anyway). Epenthesis (the addition of a vowel sound in [about] the middle of a word) is, like most sound changes, a complex process that often requires holistic study to understand. Sometimes these sound changes happen as the end (or middle) result of a domino-effect kind of situation. I don’t think that’s what happened here, but an example would be that the schwa sound started appearing between “L” and “T” in some other phonological context to make some other set of words easier to pronounce, and the change got generalized more and more. Additionally, epenthesis often happens for the purpose of vowel harmony (bridging the gap between two highly differentiated vowels; the /i/ in the “r **ea** l” part is a tensed close front vowel while the /ʊɹ/ sound at the end of the word is a rhotacized, rounded lax back vowel that’s a little more open. Schwa is central (between the two vowels) and more open (and almost rounded), thus bridging the two vowels. My understanding of this could be flawed (I’m currently taking my first historical linguistics class), but if I’m getting it right, that’s one possible explanation. Also, changes in timing can often create new sounds. Schwa is close to /l/, so if the word is drawn out a little more, the tongue could shift gradually into the schwa position between the /l/ and the /t/. Just my two cents. BTW, your attitude regarding language change is reprehensible, not to mention silly, impractical, and likely to raise your blood pressure unnecessarily without actually having any beneficial effects. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/51 "2008-10-17T05:06:36Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > It was a joke. Guess I thought the odds of addressing a Bush basher were pretty good. There are a lot of really good reasons to criticize president Bush. The fact that he pronounces some words different than you do is not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/52 "2008-10-17T05:48:42Z")
According to you of course. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/53 "2008-10-17T06:18:47Z")
And you, too, I would assume, given your retreat into “It was a joke”. Or would you like to take a second stab at what, specifically, we are to conclude about Bush’s intelligence from his non-standard pronunciation of that one word (again, keeping in mind the plethora of distinguished other speakers who use that very same pronunciation)? ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/54 "2008-10-17T06:58:26Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > I’ve never heard anyone pronounce _escalator_ as “ess-kyoo-lay-tor.” I did run into a customer service rep with (IIRC) MCI back in the day when they offered home phone service, and the rep needed to ess-kyoo-late the problem to a supervisor. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/55 "2008-10-17T07:11:55Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > And you, too, I would assume, given your retreat into “It was a joke”. Or would you like to take a second stab at what, specifically, we are to conclude about Bush’s intelligence from his non-standard pronunciation of that one word (again, keeping in mind the plethora of distinguished other speakers who use that very same pronunciation)? Never said mispronunciation had anything to do with intelligence. No retreat. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/56 "2008-10-17T07:18:00Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > It’s number of people, not number of words. The SoCal residents who say “the” before route numbers form a dialect. > > The speech pattern of a single person is an idiolect. Nope. The speech pattern of someone whose speech differs from those around him is an idiolect. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/57 "2008-10-17T07:20:27Z")
Idiolects are like accents; _everyone_ has one. ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/58 "2008-10-17T07:50:41Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Pronounce it however you like, just don’t capitalize it as though “Realtor” was a profession uniquely demanding this recognition, unlike the more respected occupations of (Joe The) Plumber or Barista.Well, as Roger Miller once told us: > > _Eng-a-land swings > Like a pendulum do_ But isn’t Realtor a trademark? Looks like it is: [http://www.realtor.com/basics/allabout/realtors/why.asp](http://www.realtor.com/basics/allabout/realtors/why.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/59 "2008-10-17T08:26:18Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > And, what is that “route number dialect” called? It’s not a “route number dialect”. It’s a _California_ dialect. This California dialect has a number of traits, some with respect to pronunciation and others relating to diction and syntax (for example, Californiaspeak has “hella” in its vocabulary, which can be used both as an attributive adjective and as an adverb). But any individual Californian’s speech does not have to include every single trait of the California dialect. There will be large variations based on their parents, friends, education, reading habits, foreign language experience, the location of previous residences, etc. etc. etc. And most of these factors change consistently. An easy example: every time someone moves, there will be a corresponding change in their language, but this change will affect different people differently. A newly arrived resident might be able to easily pick up the local vocab, but be more resistant to changes in accent. > [@Pleonast](#): > > It’s number of people, not number of words. The SoCal residents who say “the” before route numbers form a dialect. > > The speech pattern of a single person is an idiolect. > [@jimpatro](#): > > Nope. The speech pattern of someone whose speech differs from those around him is an idiolect. It amazes me how often ignorant people are willing to show up in threads like this to make blanket statements about language in some feeble-minded attempt to correct others, all without first doing themselves the simple service of consulting a [dictionary](http://www.bartleby.com/61/19/I0021900.html) or [two](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/idiolect). ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/60 "2008-10-17T12:38:22Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > Nope. The speech pattern of someone whose speech differs from those around him is an idiolect. _Your_ speech pattern subtly differs from those around you – even your parents and siblings. It is true of all humans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180.md?page=4)