# Another pronunciation pitting **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2008, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180 "2008-10-16T12:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/61 "2008-10-17T13:11:46Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > If you’re going to give realtor its proper recognition, it’s “REALTOR!!!1!!” Hooray! The reason, in case anyone cares, that you see Realtor!!!1!! capitalized is that the Realtor!!!1!!s went and got the world “Realtor” trademarked. So now nobody who isn’t a Realtor!!!1!! is supposed to use the word, and they capitalize it to make sure it really stands out. Of course, the hoi palloi still call them “real estate agents,” “agents” or “theives,” depending how far along in the transaction you are. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/62 "2008-10-17T13:26:38Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Of course, **the hoi palloi** still call them “real estate agents,” “agents” or “theives,” depending how far along in the transaction you are. Oh crap. You’d better duck and cover, **Rick**. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/63 "2008-10-17T14:36:15Z")
> [@Kendall Jackson](#): > > It amazes me how often ignorant people are willing to show up in threads like this to make blanket statements about language in some feeble-minded attempt to correct others, all without first doing themselves the simple service of consulting a [dictionary](http://www.bartleby.com/61/19/I0021900.html) or [two](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/idiolect). I’m sure what your point here was, since the definitions you cite match what both of us said. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/64 "2008-10-17T14:52:12Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’m sure what your point here was, since the definitions you cite match what both of us said. It matched what you said, and I wasn’t intending to criticize your post. It was **jimpatro** ’s reply that I was gunning for, with the claim of “Nope”. This attempted correction of you was incorrect, as a quick dictionary check would’ve shown. I suppose it might’ve looked like I was trying to correct both of you instead of just **jimpatro** , since I quoted both of you and then bitched about dictionaries without specifying what my point was. But I only quoted you to provide the context for that “Nope”, which was really a hideous blunder that could’ve been avoided with a mere 30 seconds of research. Instead of having two separate quote tags, I prolly should’ve nested the quote tags inside each other so it would’ve been more clear. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/65 "2008-10-17T15:10:19Z")
Ah, makes sense now. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/66 "2008-10-17T15:44:10Z")
> [@Kendall Jackson](#): > > It’s not a “route number dialect”. It’s a _California_ dialect. This California dialect has a number of traits, some with respect to pronunciation and others relating to diction and syntax (for example, Californiaspeak has “hella” in its vocabulary, which can be used both as an attributive adjective and as an adverb). > > But any individual Californian’s speech does not have to include every single trait of the California dialect. There will be large variations based on their parents, friends, education, reading habits, foreign language experience, the location of previous residences, etc. etc. etc. And most of these factors change consistently. An easy example: every time someone moves, there will be a corresponding change in their language, but this change will affect different people differently. A newly arrived resident might be able to easily pick up the local vocab, but be more resistant to changes in accent. > It amazes me how often ignorant people are willing to show up in threads like this to make blanket statements about language in some feeble-minded attempt to correct others, all without first doing themselves the simple service of consulting a [dictionary](http://www.bartleby.com/61/19/I0021900.html) or [two](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/idiolect). Jeez, you can’t read. My definition is the same as that from American Heritage. And Californiaspeak just doesn’t cut it for the people who say _the_ before route numbers. That’s too broad a term when it was definitely implied that some Californians speak it but not all. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/67 "2008-10-17T15:47:32Z")
And **Pleonast** backed me up on the definition to boot. Thanks, **Pleonast**! ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/68 "2008-10-17T16:04:29Z")
Idiolect is a technical term that describes something that every single person with basic language ability has. Saying that some people don’t have an idiolect is like saying that some countries don’t have dialects, because their language use is too similar to that of neighboring countries. How, exactly, do you define “similar”? ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/69 "2008-10-17T16:13:00Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > Jeez, you can’t read. My definition is the same as that from American Heritage. Except that yours implies there exist people whose speech patterns _don’t_ differ from those around them, something the AH definition carefully avoids. You find us two people who talk exactly the same, and maybe your definition can be taken seriously. > [@](#): > > And Californiaspeak just doesn’t cut it for the people who say the before route numbers. He said it’s _a_ California dialect. Not _the_ California dialect. Indefinite article. This is much of the point, after all; there exists a bewildering array of dialects, entirely resistant to glib categorisation and the enforcement of black-and-white norms. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/70 "2008-10-17T16:16:38Z")
Seems like if you have two people that talk exactly the same you have a dialect. You really think there are not multitudes of people who speak exactly the same? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/71 "2008-10-17T16:20:11Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > You really think there are not multitudes of people who speak exactly the same? In fact, there are none. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/72 "2008-10-17T16:25:57Z")
The AH definition implies that there would be no need for the word to even exist if it didn’t imply a unique situation. “unique among speakers of his or her language or dialect” means that _they_(speakers) must be speaking similarly to each other or the unique speech pattern (idiolect) wouldn’t even stand out as different. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/73 "2008-10-17T16:27:29Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > In fact, there are none. I’d like to hear more about that. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/74 "2008-10-17T16:54:50Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > I’d like to hear more about that. People pick up the language intuitively. They construct their own internal set of rules based on the language they hear around them. Broadly, most people in America pick up the same sorts of rules that make English English, allowing folks to be mutually intelligible. However, when you get into the fine details, things get fuzzy. Consider that a boy in California grows up listening to his father and mother speak. He also listens to his teachers, one of whom is a transplant from Chicago, and his friends. He grows up, moves to North Carolina, and has a kid of his own, who listens to his father and mother, but also to his friends in school. The kid is going to sound different from the father. Even if there’s no moving involved, the simple fact is that you learn the language from different people from whom your parents learned it, or your friends, or your teacher, or anyone else. Even if the differences are only one word in every 5,000, or some grammatical rule you never heard your parents use but did hear from your teacher, your speech is never going to be 100% exactly the same as someone else’s. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/75 "2008-10-17T17:55:55Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Idiolects are like accents; _everyone_ has one. I don’t. Aren’t you glad you started this, **Dolores**? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/76 "2008-10-17T19:02:44Z")
> [@Rebo](#): > > Real-a-tor. It’s real-tor, people! What is wrong with people that they have to add another syllable in there? > > Jool-er-y. Nuke-u-lar. What really drives me nuts is when people can’t pronounce _their own profession_. I hear radio commercials all the time for “relators” and people who sell “joolery.” Why would you do business with someone who’s so ignorant about what they do for a living that they can’t even say it correctly. And both words are EASY! Especially jewelry. Just say “jewel” and put a “ree” on the end. > [@Kendall Jackson](#): > > It’s not a “route number dialect”. It’s a _California_ dialect. No, it’s a “greater Los Angeles area” dialect. People in central and northern California drive on 101, not “the” 101. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/77 "2008-10-17T19:06:40Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > I don’t. Don’t have an idiolect or don’t have an accent? Or are you just joking? ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/78 "2008-10-17T19:11:57Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > What really drives me nuts is when people can’t pronounce _their own profession_. I hear radio commercials all the time for “relators” and people who sell “joolery.” Why would you do business with someone who’s so ignorant about what they do for a living that they can’t even say it correctly. > > And both words are EASY! Especially jewelry. Just say “jewel” and put a “ree” on the end. Ssh! Don’t let them hear you! (That was my entire point.) ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/79 "2008-10-17T19:20:53Z")
> [@Rebo](#): > > Ssh! Don’t let them hear you! Oh, fuck off. Just because others share in your bigotry doesn’t make it copacetic. People speak differently, and no dialect is more ‘correct’ than another. People who say “real-a-tor” are not wrong, they are just speaking as others around them do. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180/80 "2008-10-17T19:36:31Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Don’t have an idiolect or don’t have an accent? Or are you just joking? I’m just goofing around. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-pronunciation-pitting/468180.md?page=5)