Another question about California fires (why are trees still standing)

[Chronos]

@vivalostwages

We could try explaining this to Cheetolini, but he insists that all the fires here are caused by poor forest/tree management.

First of all, while the fires aren’t literally caused by poor forest management, they’re certainly exacerbated by it, and wouldn’t be nearly such a big deal otherwise. Which means that, in this instance, he’s actually fairly close to correct.

Second,
[Moderating]
There was no need for a political potshot here. I can’t see any mention of Trump or other political figures prior to this in this thread, and his opinion is both irrelevant and largely accurate, which makes it even less necessary than usual for GQ. This is an official Warning for the political-potshot hijack.

[vivalostwages]

@Chronos

First of all, while the fires aren’t literally caused by poor forest management, they’re certainly exacerbated by it, and wouldn’t be nearly such a big deal otherwise. Which means that, in this instance, he’s actually fairly close to correct.

Second,
[Moderating]
There was no need for a political potshot here. I can’t see any mention of Trump or other political figures prior to this in this thread, and his opinion is both irrelevant and largely accurate, which makes it even less necessary than usual for GQ. This is an official Warning for the political-potshot hijack.

Sorry. It’s just been hard to remain objective about something that affects so many people, animals, industry, and so much property and wilderness. Over the past weekend, I was sheltering a friend at my house just to give her a break from all the smoke where she lives. It feels personal even if it isn’t.
Having grown up in So Cal, I can say with certainty that we did not used to experience fires like the ones we have now. It’s also much warmer and drier than ever these days.
It just upset me and many others when a certain person chose a tragic, difficult time to threaten to withhold any further aid if there are more fires. I lost any remaining objectivity at that point.
I will be more careful. Sorry.

[snowthx]

@Broomstick

People want “landscaping” with trees and bushes near the house, even if in California the safer thing is to clear a firebreak all around buildings. That means no bushes, no trees, nothing up close to the house. It also is safer to build with stone and concrete and tiles rather that wooden exteriors but people don’t listen and they wind up with a building made out of fire-fuel sitting, during the dry season, in a nest of tinder. Even with perfectly managed forests this will continue to be a problem in California.

I think this is a relevant point. I pointed out in another thread how the towns of Paradise and Concow appear on the google maps satellite images as more densely forested, generally, than the surrounding wild terrain. I have also seen images of homes (mainly in SoCal)with Spanish-tile roof and stucco exterior burning like crazy - weren’t these features supposed to be more fire resistant? Some other images of homes burned to the ground by surrounded by green trees and lawn also makes me wonder. I am sure people will look at the homes and structures that survive and apply learning to our building codes, but sometimes the firestorm is just too great.

I look at the open space across from my house - when we moved here 17+ years ago the cultivated trees were sticks, and the natural trees were young. Robust growth has made the green space thick with fuel. Perhaps in more urban settings there needs to be efforts and resources spent thinning out the green spaces? But, as you say, people like trees and shrubs for privacy and beauty. And in our case, we were encouraged to plant a lot of trees and shrubs (the shade reduces energy use in the hot summer).

[ZurBob]

@nearwildheaven

I just heard a reporter on NBC say that the white ash was the result of fires burning at “thousands of degrees” and yet trees are still standing, albeit without their leaves.

How and why is that happening?

I also heard him say that in the past year, more FFs have died from suicide than from fires, although one doesn’t necessarily cause the other. (My dad is a retired FF; we live in the Midwest so the flora is totally different.)

Plant an upright “8"X"8” “deck post” in the ground in your backyard and you have simulated the diameter of a small tree. Apply a propane torch (THOUSANDS of degrees!!!) to it for a minute (or so)…and it will not burst into flames,** and it will not** render the entire post into ash. This is because the TOTAL heat applied to the post wasn’t sufficient to initiate a complete and sustainable combustion of the entire fuel mass. Much like a 200 pound welder using a 3000 degree torch, his mass, compared to the distance (inches) away from the heat/over time, doesn’t burst into flames… so do large (high mass) trees survive relatively short periods of incredibly high temperatures without being incinerated to the stump. It’s all about applied BTUs per square inch/over time, related to the inherent flammability of the material in question.

As to the second comment you cite by your reporter, I have no idea.

[Sandra_Battye]

@Broomstick

…It also is safer to build with stone and concrete and tiles rather that wooden exteriors but people don’t listen and they wind up with a building made out of fire-fuel sitting, during the dry season, in a nest of tinder.

One thing to keep in mind is that California is subject to earthquakes as well as fires. And for many years we were told that wooden-frame buildings were more flexible in an earthquake than a masonry buildings, especially non-reinforced masonry. And many homes were built in the 20th century, when the fire danger was mostly limited to the rural/wilderness areas.

I agree that we need to find a solution to the fire problem but we need to balance all the dangers in an area, whether fire, earthquake, flood, tornado, hurricane, blizzard, etc. How many areas have been affected by floods, tornadoes or hurricanes since 2000? Do we forbid re-building in a flood plain? Forbid re-building in those areas that have been devastated by hurricanes or tornadoes? Every area has its multiple perils and all of them need to taken into consideration when formulating fire and building codes.