# Another reason to be Pro-Life. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803 "2004-02-18T16:23:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Broken\_Column](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@The\_Broken\_Column](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Broken_Column)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/1 "2004-02-18T16:23:06Z")
And sorry you can’t get out of this one. Murder, killing so forth, is the act of taking a life. Murder is taking a life illegally. Life is any organism that is cellular and reproduces and consumes a fuel. More or less. This applies to the fetus as well as a person, the only difference is biologically the fetus is a symbiot while a person is not. However, you are still ending life. By the definitions straight out of the book. There is one other case of absolute Sanctioned Murder. (Oxymoron really…sanctioned murder = killing) We called it the Hollocaust. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/2 "2004-02-18T16:26:42Z")
Did you ever read [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=240143)? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Broken\_Column](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@The\_Broken\_Column](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Broken_Column)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/3 "2004-02-18T16:29:11Z")
I came here upon the bet that I could contain myself from personal attacks of other posters. Apparently it doesn’t matter, because this forum like any other is full of personal attacks, they are just devoid of vulgarity. Upon the rule established by this forum shouldn’t you be banned? ---
**Author:** ![Beltane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@Beltane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beltane)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/4 "2004-02-18T16:29:55Z")
> [@The\_Broken\_Column](#): > > And sorry you can’t get out of this one. > > Murder, killing so forth, is the act of taking a life. Murder is taking a life illegally. > > Life is any organism that is cellular and reproduces and consumes a fuel. More or less. > > This applies to the fetus as well as a person, the only difference is biologically the fetus is a symbiot while a person is not. > > However, you are still ending life. By the definitions straight out of the book. > > There is one other case of absolute Sanctioned Murder. (Oxymoron really…sanctioned murder = killing) > > We called it the Hollocaust. Hmmm… I realize I am beating my head against a wall, but what the heck… So, by the definitions you have provided- _STRICTLY GOING BY THOSE_- anyone who is not vegan is the moral equivelent of Hitler, or rather the gas chamber operators? I wonder where you pull this kind of crap from. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/5 "2004-02-18T16:30:45Z")
> [@](#): > > This applies to the fetus as well as a person, … … and plants and animals. So do you eat meat? Animals are alive and are killed for food. Don’t think you can escape it by being Vegatarian either. Plants are alive. They grow and respirate. So if killing anything that is alive is murder, then eating is murder. Sorry you can’t get out of this one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Broken\_Column](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@The\_Broken\_Column](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Broken_Column)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/6 "2004-02-18T16:32:03Z")
Oh I would also like to point out that this thread is not a “Circular argument” nor does it even need backing up. Any idiot with a high school education knows who first defined life and how life is defined, they also are most likely capable of reading a dictionary. The idea of abortion being alright because it is not killing a life is absurd. A bacterium is living. The difference is pro-choicers decide to define what it means to be Human. Hmm…the Nazis did the same thing, they called it Aryans. Everyone else was sub-human and needed to be erradicated, either by fire (Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals so forth), or breeding (most everyone else). ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/7 "2004-02-18T16:33:01Z")
> [@Beltane](#): > > So, by the definitions you have provided- _STRICTLY GOING BY THOSE_- anyone who is not vegan is the moral equivelent of Hitler, or rather the gas chamber operators? No, even vegans, who consume living organisms, would be condemned by this absurd definition of “murder.” So would anyone who takes medicine to fight an infection. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Broken\_Column](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@The\_Broken\_Column](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Broken_Column)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/8 "2004-02-18T16:34:42Z")
It seems many here are going to take it to the extreme and ask, “So is everyone hitler?” Obviously we are killers, being organisms, living as anything but a plant you must be a killer. One difference, it is our nature to eat certain things. Unless you are willing to eat a human to survive, there is no reason for you to justify killing a human. We don’t tollerate in OUR society the eating of people. But while I don’t care if you kill a cow, Hindi do… The difference is, how do we define human life? You decide human life begins when you come flying out of a pussy. We decide it begins when a process is set in motion that if not interrupted, will produce a human. ---
**Author:** ![Ramanujan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/51bf81/32.png) [@Ramanujan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramanujan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/9 "2004-02-18T16:38:01Z")
> [@The\_Broken\_Column](#): > > And sorry you can’t get out of this one. > > Murder, killing so forth, is the act of taking a life. Murder is taking a life illegally. actually, he seems to be saying that abortion is NOT murder, because it is legal. i can agree with that. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/10 "2004-02-18T16:39:09Z")
Okay, I’m not sure exactly how seriously I’m supposed to take this argument, but here it goes. Killing =! Murder. Just because you kill, does not mean that you have murdered something. That’s why there is a totally different word for it. Do we call killing animals for food, murder? Killing pests so that they stay out of our houses murder? Pulling up weeds? Even assuming that I agree with your point that the fetus is ‘alive’ -and to be fair, i do- doesn’t mean that I agree that the killing of a fetus = murder. If you’d like, I can take you through my logic. Killing in self-defense, in my experience, is never considered murder. Given the very real threats to the physical and mental well-being of the mother in even the most ‘routine’ pregnancy, the mother’s desire to abort always trumps the fetus’ right to appropriate resources during gestation, and to threaten the mother’s health. Though, I guess I could just call ‘Godwin’ and be done with it. Holocaust, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/11 "2004-02-18T16:39:45Z")
I’ll bet you put your pro-life friends to sleep. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/12 "2004-02-18T16:40:03Z")
I can’t figure out how this thread’s OP is any different from the other thread (still active in GD) started by the same person on the same subject. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/13 "2004-02-18T16:41:37Z")
> [@TBC](#): > > Murder, killing so forth, is the act of taking a life. Murder is taking a life illegally. Well, then its not murder…as its legal to have an abortion in the US. As for ‘taking life’…do you eat? I ‘take life’ every day just by consuming food. If you mean HUMAN life, well, 10’s of thousands die each day from murder, starvation, disease, etc. Why not focus your efforts THERE, especially for those actual children and adult humans who are suffering, starving, etc, instead of nosing into someone elses business about abortion?? > [@TBC](#): > > This applies to the fetus as well as a person, the only difference is biologically the fetus is a symbiot while a person is not. A fetus can’t think or reason. It can’t exist on its own. Its just a mass of cells that has the POTENTIAL to become a human. > [@TBC](#): > > However, you are still ending life. By the definitions straight out of the book. Again, whats your point. We ‘end life’ every day. So what?? As to the Holocaust thing…nice Godwinization there (and in the OP to boot). Get real. -XT ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/14 "2004-02-18T16:42:02Z")
> [@The\_Broken\_Column](#): > > I came here upon the bet that I could contain myself from personal attacks of other posters. > > Apparently it doesn’t matter, because this forum like any other is full of personal attacks, they are just devoid of vulgarity. > > Upon the rule established by this forum shouldn’t you be banned? Never heard of the Pit, have you? ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/15 "2004-02-18T16:42:56Z")
> [@The\_Broken\_Column](#): > > I came here upon the bet that I could contain myself from personal attacks of other posters. > > Apparently it doesn’t matter, because this forum like any other is full of personal attacks, they are just devoid of vulgarity. > > Upon the rule established by this forum shouldn’t you be banned? Everywhere you go, you see personal attacks? Funny, that. ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/16 "2004-02-18T16:43:49Z")
> [@The\_Broken\_Column](#): > > I came here upon the bet that I could contain myself from personal attacks of other posters. > > Apparently it doesn’t matter, because this forum like any other is full of personal attacks, they are just devoid of vulgarity. > > Upon the rule established by this forum shouldn’t you be banned? Perhaps you are unaware of the proper procedure; if you feel someone has broken a rule, report the post to a Moderator. It’s not necessary to pose the question publically. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/17 "2004-02-18T16:46:30Z")
So you are equating people that disagree with you about abortion to the Nazis? Have you considering changing your user name to The Broken Record? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/18 "2004-02-18T16:48:16Z")
Should have been: Have you considered… sheesh, bad grammar today. Must…learn…to…preview…before…submitting. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Broken\_Column](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@The\_Broken\_Column](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Broken_Column)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/19 "2004-02-18T16:58:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Should have been: Have you considered… sheesh, bad grammar today. Must…learn…to…preview…before…submitting. I find it interesting liberals always attack grammar and spelling when they can’t attack the argument. To dumb it down for the rest of you. The argument is thus: Abortion is killing a fetus (not murder, just killing). Nazis “killed” Jews, (Not murder as they sanctioned it, they believed it was alright). The Nazis did this by dehumanizing the Jews, we dehumanize fetuses by saying they have no conciousness or such, and some to the extent that they are not alive. What I find is pro-choicers can not really admit that their morals are less justifiable than pro-lifers. Because while pro-lifers would rather just protect the life of the fetus, pro-choicers decide to objectify the situation. And so you must know so you don’t have to bring it up, to save the mother is quite alright. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803/20 "2004-02-18T17:13:32Z")
> [@](#): > > I find it interesting liberals always attack grammar and spelling when they can’t attack the argument. I was attacking my _own_ grammar, o enlightened one! Equating your opponents to Nazis is not going to win you many arguments or friends, I suggest you change your approach. Please stick around, we haven’t had anyone this amusing since Chumpsky. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-be-pro-life/229803.md?page=2)