# Another Reason to Despise Religion **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 16, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983 "2012-03-16T17:31:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/21 "2012-03-16T21:29:31Z")
The first Makah whale hunt had speed boats, helicopter spotters, machine guns, high power rifles, cell phones, and apparently the kill was wasted for the most part. How is that traditional, and how is that right? This cite has some information, but the petition is no longer open. > **[Sign Petition: HELP REVOKE MAKAH WHALING RIGHTS!](https://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/help-revoke-makah-whaling-rights/)** > > TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE MAKAH; AND HOW YOU CAN HELP STOP WHALING, WORLDWIDE, PLEASE SCROLL TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE! (1104 signatures on petition) ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/22 "2012-03-16T23:09:06Z")
I’ve heard, but never confirmed, that even possessing eagle feathers is a crime, because the government doesn’t know if you killed the bird yourself or not, so nobody but Indians are allowed to have them. I wonder if that’s true. If so, that’s pretty fucked up ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/23 "2012-03-17T01:09:59Z")
I’m not sure I see the difference between religion and the zealous patriotism of worshipping a bird. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/24 "2012-03-17T01:52:54Z")
> [@florez](#): > > The first Makah whale hunt had speed boats, helicopter spotters, machine guns, high power rifles, cell phones, and apparently the kill was wasted for the most part. How is that traditional, and how is that right? > This cite has some information, but the petition is no longer open. > > [petition: HELP REVOKE MAKAH WHALING RIGHTS!](http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/help-revoke-makah-whaling-rights/) From your link for those who want their head to spin: > [@](#): > > A) The Makah Treaty of 1855; [specifically Article 4, which allows the tribe to whale], is a 152 year old document; one which pre-dates the AMERICAN CIVIL WAR BY 6 YEARS, and is therefore no longer relevant; anymore than the past tradition of slavery, WHICH THE MAKAH TRIBE FORFEITED WHEN SIGNING THIS TREATY. That’s right folks, the Makah owned slaves!! ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/25 "2012-03-17T02:31:58Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > From your link for those who want their head to spin: The Tlinget and Haida tribes of Southeast Alaska also had a tradition of owning slaves, who were freed after the civil war. Their history is rich with “high caste” clanswomen- running off to marry their slaves, who had been taken in battle and also in trade. (google: Chief Shakes and the Frog Clan Totem.) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/26 "2012-03-17T06:47:28Z")
> [@florez](#): > > The first Makah whale hunt had speed boats, helicopter spotters, machine guns, high power rifles, cell phones, and apparently the kill was wasted for the most part. How is that traditional, and how is that right? I bet if you traveled back in time to 1440 and gave the Makah speedboats, helicopters and high powered rifles, they would have been all over that shit. The “rowboat & harpoon” thing was based on the best available technology at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/27 "2012-03-17T07:50:49Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Similar to a couple of Pac NW tribes here who are still allowed to go whaling, I think it’s fine if you do so in a rickety little dugout with hand-thrown weapons without modern life preservers or modern protective clothing. Have at it! They’re not “allowed” to go whaling. The right of the Makah to whale is preserved by the Treaty of Neah Bay which the U.S. signed back in 1855. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/28 "2012-03-17T08:44:02Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > So other birds would be okay (like, say, chicken for dinner), but our :eek:_national symbol_:eek: is off-limits? Australians have no such hesitation about national symbols. We eat both of the animals on our coat of arms. In fact today I bought Kangaroo steaks at the supermarket and have just finished eating one of them for dinner. Delicious. 🙂 I’m not that big a fan of emu though. Tastes like chicken. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/29 "2012-03-17T12:36:54Z")
> [@florez](#): > > The Tlinget and Haida tribes of Southeast Alaska also had a tradition of owning slaves, who were freed after the civil war. Their history is rich with “high caste” clanswomen- running off to marry their slaves, who had been taken in battle and also in trade. > (google: Chief Shakes and the Frog Clan Totem.) I wasn’t commenting about the tribe owning slaves, I’m sure they did as many societies did, but the irrelevance of bringing that up at all. Also from their own line of reasoning this tribe agreed to give up slaves before the US did, which would mean that they are the ones to claim the rest of the US still owned slaves after we agreed to give up slavery. This tribe certainly has the higher ground on the issue of slavery then the US. I was also commenting about how they stated that the treaty is now irrelevant because it was signed before the civil war. Also I’m not sure of their claim about these natives using modern technology for the actual hunt, but only as support after the initial strike was made by native weapons and boats and the whale was considered captured, and for medical or other emergency situations. Once the whale is considered captured modern methods are used to dispatch it quicker. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/30 "2012-03-17T14:07:03Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Unlike a few decades ago, the bald eagle population is pretty healthy. I have a hard time getting all bent out of shape about this exemption for a small group of people. It’s the least we can do for taking their land and killing most of their eagles in the first place. That’s the thing, there’s the belief they are quite rare and that is no longer true. It is no longer facing extinction (not even considered threatened anymore.) I am a pretty citified person and I have seem them several times around my area. Hell, the last time I saw a bald eagle, it was on a telephone wire two blocks from my house. I live smack in the middle of suburbs (closer to downtown Des Moines than I am to real wilderness let alone the edge of town). They are not rare. If one tribe of native Americans want to kill **two** bald eagles for religious purposes, is it honestly that big of a deal? Read the article, it is literally about **dos** bald eagles here. Is it worth losing cultural traditions over two non-rare birds? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/31 "2012-03-17T15:20:46Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > Normally I don’t mind the religious. Like smokers, it lets me know who around me is an idiot and I can avoid them. > . Thanks in advance for avoiding me. I appreciate that. Also, Einstein smoked. Just saying. > [@fluiddruid](#): > > That’s the thing, there’s the belief they are quite rare and that is no longer true. It is no longer facing extinction (not even considered threatened anymore.) I am a pretty citified person and I have seem them several times around my area. Hell, the last time I saw a bald eagle, it was on a telephone wire two blocks from my house. I live smack in the middle of suburbs (closer to downtown Des Moines than I am to real wilderness let alone the edge of town). They are not rare. > > If one tribe of native Americans want to kill **two** bald eagles for religious purposes, is it honestly that big of a deal? Read the article, it is literally about **dos** bald eagles here. Is it worth losing cultural traditions over two non-rare birds? My only concern is: Now that they’ve done this, they’ve set a precedent. Now every Tom, Dick and Harry can get a permit if they say it’s for religious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/32 "2012-03-17T15:28:50Z")
I have a conservative relative who has been railing on Facebook for weeks now about how Obama is at war with the Catholic Church for not allowing a religious exemption for employer-provided healthcare regulations. Of course, he is also now enraged that Obama is allowing a religious exemption for bald eagle killing. He appears to see no logical disconnect here. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/33 "2012-03-17T15:49:36Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > Occasionally though, religious types the world over decide to force their belief system and rules on others. Any resistance marks us as infidels, devils, unholy. Whatever. Did anyone force their belief system and rules on others? If they did I must have missed it. They asked for permission and it was granted. I think you are just looking for another reason to “despise” religion. Do you “despise” religion because they occasionally kill animals? If so, you must really “despise” all those meat eaters…many who probably live in your neighborhood. Or are you just opposed to killing animals for religious ceremonies? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/34 "2012-03-17T19:28:34Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Thanks in advance for avoiding me. Seconded. I don’t much grok the purpose of this OP. Did **ducati** just wake up and decided that he needed to be an enormous asshole today? What gives? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/35 "2012-03-17T20:28:30Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > I have a conservative relative who has been railing on Facebook for weeks now about how Obama is at war with the Catholic Church for not allowing a religious exemption for employer-provided healthcare regulations. Of course, he is also now enraged that Obama is allowing a religious exemption for bald eagle killing. He appears to see no logical disconnect here. The “logic” is: Obama’s doing it, so it must be wrong! No irregularities there! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/36 "2012-03-18T01:25:10Z")
What if the eagle is [pregnant?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=517935) ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/37 "2012-03-18T05:10:04Z")
Bald eagles are no longer an endagered or even threatened species. They were de-listed by the federal government five years ago. My own state kept the threatened status longer but just removed their threatened status. Private citizens still cannot mess around with eagles or any other raptor without serious consequences. But letting Native Americans have 2 seems like a very little thing. ---
**Author:** ![Jasper\_Kent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@Jasper\_Kent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasper_Kent)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/38 "2012-03-18T18:21:18Z")
1. I don’t care for religion and I hate hypocrisy. The two often go hand in hand. 2. I’m not a hunter and I despise those who would hunt an endangered creature. _ **However,** _ I agree that this is much ado about nothing. It’s only 2 birds and they aren’t rare. A small concession to some people who’ve had everything else taken from them (at least until very recently). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/39 "2012-03-18T19:18:19Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > It’s the least we can do for taking their land and killing most of their eagles in the first place. The argument could be made that they were never “their” eagles to begin with. They were the eagles’ eagles. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983/40 "2012-03-19T00:09:39Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > They were the eagles’ eagles. Jeffrey Lurie owns them?😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-despise-religion/615983.md?page=3)