# Another reason to hate Fort Lauderdale, you'll get arrested for feeding the homeless.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [November 5, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794 "2014-11-05T19:38:49Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/81 "2014-11-07T01:25:42Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> While SF has had its issues, I would have to point out that this sort of thing has always been a problem, but has visibly been improved in most of North America’s great cities **without making it illegal to feed people.**
>
> It is undeniably the case that in New York, Chicago, and many other great cities with tourist trade, the problem of homelessness has been abated, cities cleaned up, and tourist areas improved through methods less hatchet-shaped than making it illegal to give someone a slice of pizza.
It’s not illegal to feed people in Fort Lauderdale either. Based on what I’ve read of the new law, there are just limits on where it’s done and the facilities that need to be provided. Bathroom facilities are required so that the problem of human waste in public areas doesn’t increase.
According to [this list](http://www.foodpantries.org/ci/fl-fort_lauderdale), there are at least 16 food pantries in Fort Lauderdale that give free food.
Baed on [this article](http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/fort-lauderdale/fl-lauderdale-homeless-feeding-sites-20141021-story.html) published in 2014, here are a few things that Fort Lauderdale is doing or has done to deal with the homelessness problem:
> [@](#):
>
> Commissioners say they’re also working to assist the homeless. In January, the city became part of a grant to provide permanent housing to 22 people identified as chronically homeless. It also runs an outreach program through its police department and supports the homeless assistance center run by the Broward Partnership.
>
> The city’s new budget includes $25,000 to buy one-way bus tickets for homeless people who want to reunite with their families in other parts of the country.
---
### Author:  [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/82 "2014-11-07T01:35:32Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#):
>
> It’s not illegal to feed people in Fort Lauderdale either. Based on what I’ve read of the new law, there are just limits on where it’s done and the facilities that need to be provided. Bathroom facilities are required so that the problem of human waste in public areas doesn’t increase.
>
> …
So the guys who drive catering trucks, sidewalk vendors, etc., all provide places for their customers to answer natures call? Or is it different if you sell the food instead of giving it away?
---
### Author:  [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/83 "2014-11-07T01:56:11Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#):
>
> So the guys who drive catering trucks, sidewalk vendors, etc., all provide places for their customers to answer natures call? Or is it different if you sell the food instead of giving it away?
Is this a rhetorical question? I don’t know the answer. Since you started the OP, do you know more about this?
From [this article](http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-08-09/business/fl-food-truck-zoning-woes-20120809_1_food-trucks-brett-chiavari-bc-tacos), truck vendors have to get special licenses to comply with city code and only sell in approved places, which in some ways, is similar to the new ordinance in that certain places are restricted.
> [@](#):
>
> All street vendors must have one of three licenses issued by the city:
>
> A mobile vendors license, which most ice cream trucks use to sell goods and move on to new locations;.
>
> A stationary vending license to sell goods from a specific location approved by the city’s planning and zoning division;
>
> A special outdoor event agreement, which allows vendors to sell at a public event one time for a $100 fee. Outdoor agreements are purchased through Fort Lauderdale’s Parks & Recreation Department.
> . . .
> “This is a public safety issue. The aim of our ordinance is to protect the public,” Little said.
---
### Author:  [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/84 "2014-11-07T02:09:17Z")
> [@Bone](#):
>
> Keeping the homeless away from tourists is bad because…why? For places that rely on tourist revenues, it seems prudent to take steps to attract tourists. If not for them, the city either has to cut services or raise taxes.
>
> They could be like SF, where every other street corner smells like urine and escalators on mass transit routinely have to be closed due to build up of human solid waste. Come visit our bustling metropolis!
Yes, and that’s why no tourists ever visit San Francisco.
---
### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/85 "2014-11-07T02:47:14Z")
I’m sorry to Bone that I got that angry. The thrust of what I said, that I don’t think putting money first is a good argument, is true, but the way I gave it was way overly hostile, even though this is the Pit.
And, since I said it public, I feel I need to give the apology in public. (And, no, I haven’t read anything else in this thread before I posted this. I felt bad on my own.)
---
### Author:  [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/86 "2014-11-07T05:36:25Z")
> [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](#):
>
> This law is more likely intended discourage seasonal homeless migration to Fort Lauderdale when it gets too cold to panhandle in the liberal northeast.
Exactly my point. It’s not, as they’re implying, to discourage homelessness (which is kind of like discouraging cancer), it’s to encourage the homeless to be a problem in other cities.
---
### Author:  [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/87 "2014-11-07T06:27:38Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> I’m sorry to Bone that I got that angry. The thrust of what I said, that I don’t think putting money first is a good argument, is true, but the way I gave it was way overly hostile, even though this is the Pit.
>
> And, since I said it public, I feel I need to give the apology in public. (And, no, I haven’t read anything else in this thread before I posted this. I felt bad on my own.)
No worries, and I appreciate it.
---
### Author:  [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/88 "2014-11-07T13:13:58Z")
> [@](#):
>
> The city’s new budget includes $25,000 to buy one-way bus tickets for homeless people who want to reunite with their families in other parts of the country.
I find this both funny and sad…
“Hey homeless guy, you have any family somewhere that isn’t here?”
“Well, maybe a distant cousin or something around New York”
“OK then, one ticket to New York. Good Luck!”
☹
---
### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/89 "2014-11-07T16:16:10Z")
> [@Slash1972](#):
>
> I find this both funny and sad…
>
> “Hey homeless guy, you have any family somewhere that isn’t here?”
>
> “Well, maybe a distant cousin or something around New York”
>
> “OK then, one ticket to New York. Good Luck!”
>
> ☹
Which he then immediately
[ul][li]Sticks in his pocket and forgets about[/li][li]Loses, or[/li][li]Trades for a bottle and a pack of cigarettes.[/ul][/li]Regards,
Shodan
---
### Author:  [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/90 "2014-11-07T16:22:15Z")
I would think the purpose of that budget item is to have homeless people be homeless somewhere else, which would be defeated by just sending a homeless person on his way with a newly purchased ticket, instead of making him get on the bus in the guise of “keeping him safe” or “protecting his belongings” or something else to that effect.
---
### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/91 "2014-11-07T16:35:50Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#):
>
> I am hoping this refers to the post just before yours and not to me.
Yes.
> [@clairobscur](#):
>
> Your link is supposed to demonstrate what?
That **FXMastermind** is a moron, probably.
---
### Author:  [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/92 "2014-11-07T16:36:58Z")
> [@Slash1972](#):
>
> I would think the purpose of that budget item is to have homeless people be homeless somewhere else, which would be defeated by just sending a homeless person on his way with a newly purchased ticket, instead of making him get on the bus in the guise of “keeping him safe” or “protecting his belongings” or something else to that effect.
The purpose is to reunite homeless people with family if they are available to care for them. If the barrier of a homeless person is the cost of transport and connecting with relatives, this item takes care of that. It really seems that simple and isn’t unique to Ft. Lauderdale.
[New York](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/29/nyregion/29oneway.html?_r=0):
> [@](#):
>
> They are flown to Paris ($6,332), Orlando ($858.40), Johannesburg ($2,550.70), or most frequently, San Juan ($484.20).
> …
> The Bloomberg administration, which has struggled with a seemingly intractable problem of homelessness for years, has paid for more than 550 families to leave the city since 2007, as a way of keeping them out of the expensive shelter system, which costs $36,000 a year per family. All it takes is for a relative elsewhere to agree to take the family in.
[California:](http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/30/local/me-buspass30)
> [@](#):
>
> Andrea and Greg Killgore were already living on the streets in Las Vegas when they decided to relocate to Lancaster in early March. They thought their job prospects would be better in California.
>
> But the couple were unable to find work and feared they would soon end up back on the streets.
>
> A few days later, they were on a bus headed to Denver, where a relative had agreed to take them in. To their surprise, a local nonprofit group had agreed to pay for their one-way ticket out of town.
>
> Since January, the Grace Resource Center has offered to cover transportation expenses for homeless people to return to their home states or wherever they have families or other means of support. So far the group has spent about $2,500 to help more than a dozen people leave Lancaster through the Opportunity Bus Pass Program.
[Other parts of Florida:](http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20140902/ARTICLE/140909939)
> [@](#):
>
> In a move that has been tried elsewhere around the country, with varying results, city officials are backing a plan to offer transportation out of town to some of the people living on the street in Sarasota. On Tuesday, the City Commission voted unanimously to place $1,000 in a “Homeward Bound fund” that would help finance that one-way travel.
>
> Those funds would, city officials hope, be matched by donations from the public. The city is partnering in the effort with local charities, including Resurrection House and the Salvation Army, but is seeking more control as it contributes money.
>
> A few individuals already have been reunited with family elsewhere, said Calvin Collins, a licensed mental health counselor and veteran the city hired earlier this year to work with people living on the street. All of the people offered travel out of town would be similarly connected with family, friends, or caregivers.
[North Dakota:](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/11/homeless-bus-tickets_n_2458344.html)
> [@](#):
>
> Jobseekers have been flocking to Williston, N.D., for its alluring less-than-1 percent unemployment rate and high-paying opportunities, CNN Money reports. But as the job market’s been swelling, the housing market’s been shrinking, and the local Salvation Army is trying to solve the problem by paying for homeless people’s one-way bus and train tickets and contributing to flight costs.
> …
> After placing more than 7,000 people in shelters and housing programs in 2011, Fort Lauderdale, Fla., decided to start paying for bus tickets for people living on the streets, the Palm Beach Post reported last December.
>
> “We’re not pushing them out,” Mayor Jack Seiler told the paper. “If somebody has a network of support, a group of family and friends that will provide for them back home, that’s probably a good place for them to be."
There could be bad results with these types of programs, but if there is a way to reunite/reconnect people with a family or support structure, it does seem a humane thing to do. These programs aren’t always pushed by the local governments - non profits and other aid programs also provide these services to help those in need.
---
### Author:  [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/93 "2014-11-07T16:42:10Z")
Well, I stand corrected on that point then. On a related note, why is the word “one-way” used in all those stories instead of just “Offered to pay for their bus ticket” or “Purchase a plane ticket”. Why is “one-way” always added? Using that term makes me think of old “one way ticket outta town” type scenarios, and when mentioned in the context of the Fort Lauderdale story, leads to a more dark reason for it, instead of what you have shown in your quotes.
---
### Author:  [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/94 "2014-11-07T16:42:14Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#):
>
> For the record, the gentleman being prosecuted in the linked story did not “set up a homeless feeding place” right outside anyone’s house, nor at any fixed place. He was arrested for carrying plates of food into public parks and beaches, and giving them to people.
I’m not sure what you call a “homeless feeding center”, but what I read is that he brought 300 meals to his location. Was he planning to lug all this all over the city finding 300 homeless people and giving them meals, or was he planning on parking himself with his 300 meals and having 300 homeless people show up? I assume the latter.
---
### Author:  [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/95 "2014-11-07T18:19:32Z")
> [@Bone](#):
>
> They are flown to Paris ($6,332)
So, that’s where the homeless around here come from? New-York?
Seriously, I fisrt I was like :eek: Then, I thought, “you’re an idiot, :smack: , it’s Paris, Texas, obviously”. Then I looked at the ticket price, and 😕 , “no, that’s Paris, France”.
I guess it makes some sense, but I’m extremely surprised that homeless people are flown back to France (I’m assuming they’re French citizens, not sent there because they’d like to visit the French riviera) at the expense of the New-York tax payer. Also if they were illegals, I assume they’d be deported at federal expense, so who are these guys? Bi-nationals with more family in France? Weird, really.
---
### Author:  [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/96 "2014-11-07T18:35:36Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#):
>
> I’m not sure what you call a “homeless feeding center”, but what I read is that he brought 300 meals to his location. Was he planning to lug all this all over the city finding 300 homeless people and giving them meals, or was he planning on parking himself with his 300 meals and having 300 homeless people show up? I assume the latter.
He may prepare 300 plates on a given day (I did not see this), but as he’s not going to the same spot each time and has no fixed facilities at the points of distribution, no, I wouldn’t call that a “center.” And my assumption would be the reverse of yours. If you have 300 meals to unload and no fixed facilities, I expect you do have to travel it around some. I did something similar myself once upon a time in DC; given a windfall of perfectly good food, we lugged it around to various places until we’d found enough people to give it to.
---
### Author:  [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/97 "2014-11-07T18:42:50Z")
> [@Bone](#):
>
> The purpose is to reunite homeless people with family if they are available to care for them. If the barrier of a homeless person is the cost of transport and connecting with relatives, this item takes care of that. It really seems that simple and isn’t unique to Ft. Lauderdale.
> …
> There could be bad results with these types of programs, but if there is a way to reunite/reconnect people with a family or support structure, it does seem a humane thing to do. These programs aren’t always pushed by the local governments - non profits and other aid programs also provide these services to help those in need.
Indeed, but none of this actually has much to do with the OP topic. Nobody with a relevant family/support structure in another city, who has been prevented reaching them for want of a bus ticket, is going to be dissuaded from making that move because they know that kind people will be allowed to sometimes give them free food in the city they’re in.
---
### Author:  [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/98 "2014-11-07T18:57:31Z")
Also, **Bone** , nothing you say really refutes the idea that the core motivation of such ticket-out programs, for city governments, is to “have them be homeless somewhere else,” or make them another city’s problem, as opposed to helping them _not be homeless_. After all, homeless people with families generally become homeless in the city where their family is, to begin with. That they then ended up in Fort Lauderdale, or wherever–or their family _went_ somewhere else–is probably secondary to the reasons for homelessness.
---
### Author:  [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/99 "2014-11-07T19:07:51Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#):
>
> He may prepare 300 plates on a given day (I did not see this), but as he’s not going to the same spot each time and has no fixed facilities at the points of distribution, no, I wouldn’t call that a “center.” And my assumption would be the reverse of yours. If you have 300 meals to unload and no fixed facilities, I expect you do have to travel it around some. I did something similar myself once upon a time in DC; given a windfall of perfectly good food, we lugged it around to various places until we’d found enough people to give it to.
Doesn’t seem that way from what I’ve seen.
> **[Police shut down Stranahan Park homeless feeding site, cite activists for...](https://www.sun-sentinel.com/2014/11/02/police-shut-down-stranahan-park-homeless-feeding-site-cite-activists-for-breaking-new-law/)**
>
> Uniformed police shut down an effort to provide lunch to scores of homeless in Stranahan Park on Sunday, enforcing a law passed recently that puts new limits on outdoor feeding sites. At least thre…
> **[Florida man who broke the law by feeding the homeless still serving](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2824257/Man-broke-law-feeding-homeless-undeterred.html)**
>
> Despite being charged with violating a new law by feeding the homeless in South Florida, 90-year-old Arnold Abbott said he's not deterred and even went back out to serve more food at a public park.
> **[90-Year-Old Man Charged With Feeding Homeless Says He Won't 'Give Up'](https://abcnews.go.com/US/90-year-florida-man-charged-feeding-homeless-wont/story?id=26733223)**
>
> Arnold Abbott has been doing it every Wednesday for 23 years.
Seems like he sets up shop in a designated area - mostly the park - with his table and food and ladles it out to all comers. (See e.g. the end of the last link.)
---
### Author:  [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794/100 "2014-11-07T19:13:50Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#):
>
> Also, **Bone** , nothing you say really refutes the idea that the core motivation of such ticket-out programs, for city governments, is to “have them be homeless somewhere else,” or make them another city’s problem, as opposed to helping them _not be homeless_. After all, homeless people with families generally become homeless in the city where their family is, to begin with. That they then ended up in Fort Lauderdale, or wherever–or their family _went_ somewhere else–is probably secondary to the reasons for homelessness.
Not necessarily no. But do you think it’s the primary motivation of the Salvation Army to have them be homeless somewhere else? That seems uncharacteristic. There could be multiple motivations of local governments, some good, some not good. It’s clear that some have taken advantage of the relocation willingly. That’s enough for me.
> [@](#):
>
> Indeed, but none of this actually has much to do with the OP topic. Nobody with a relevant family/support structure in another city, who has been prevented reaching them for want of a bus ticket, is going to be dissuaded from making that move because they know that kind people will be allowed to sometimes give them free food in the city they’re in.
Yes - this is in response to the derision of the ticket purchase/move aspects of the city budget. It’s not meant as a comment toward the thrust of the OP. I’ve written on that separately in other posts.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794.md?page=4)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-to-hate-fort-lauderdale-youll-get-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/703794.md?page=6)