# Another reason why this country is so fucked!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 7, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789 "2005-05-07T05:16:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/61 "2005-05-07T19:02:24Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Yeah. But if we’re going to fight crime let’s get serious and include greedy white business criminals too! > > Unfortuately, your right! Include them? I say start with them first! Pinching pennies to save your family business is one thing, but if you’re pinching pennies in a multi-billion dollar industry _waves to Walmart_, then you need a serious looking into as far as employment hiring ethics. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/62 "2005-05-07T19:52:07Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > And let me ask another question: exactly how many people would you open border types allow in? A billion? 3 billion? 5? Why not have everyone on the planet just move here? Do you believe in any controls or any limits? I guess I’m not going to get an answer to this. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/63 "2005-05-07T20:01:20Z")
Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses, yearning to breath free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, Send these, the homeless, tempest tossed, I lift my lamp beside the golden door. Sounds like a good plan to me. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/64 "2005-05-07T20:05:18Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Give me your tired, your poor, > Your huddled masses, yearning to breath free, > The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, > Send these, the homeless, tempest tossed, > I lift my lamp beside the golden door. > > Sounds like a good plan to me. Are you saying that you would allow every single human being that wanted in, in? Why don’t you answer my question? At what point would you close the door? 2 billion? 6? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/65 "2005-05-07T20:18:44Z")
OK, **treis** , gotcha this time! You know who sent us that statue with those clearly un-American sentiments enscribed? The French, that’s who, the original cheese-eating surrender monkeys! It was our Anglo forefathers who carved a great nation out of the American Indian, as disgraceful a bunch of losers as ever infested a contintent (except for the Cherokee, of course. Cherokee are cool.) And lets take Chris Rock’s advice, and give placenames that give proper respect to the _real_ Americans: _Ciudad de los Angeles_, my ass! Its Angelburg! San Diego? Gus Johnson! Albuquerque? Something we can friggin’ _spell_! And we can short circuit all those lowlifes who try to take the Lord’s name in vain, from now on, its Josh Christ! _disclaimer: the previous is intended purely as sarcasm, and in no wise reflects the views of this poster, or anybody else with a lick of sense._ ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/66 "2005-05-07T20:19:09Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Are you saying that you would allow every single human being that wanted in, in? > Why don’t you answer my question? At what point would you close the door? 2 billion? 6? Are you against illegal immigration, or just immigration in general? Because that’s another debate entirely. My personal answer would be “allow the number of people in that is in the economic best interests of the country”. What that actual number and educational/professional requirements would be is not something I’m going to go into here. I’m a computer scientist, not a political major. Note that this is not an ethical judgement at all. Ethically, there is no reason why you have any more right to be born in a wealthy country than a starving third worlder. So I find you moral outrage absolutely horrific. Having said that, the country is responsible for it’s own citizens only. Not pleasant, but in today’s climate, entirely necessary. I see disallowing people to move around freely as a neccesary evil until such time as the entire world sorts itself out. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/67 "2005-05-07T20:21:06Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Are you saying that you would allow every single human being that wanted in, in? > Why don’t you answer my question? At what point would you close the door? 2 billion? 6? I don’t really understand what wasn’t clear about my post. Anyone who wants to come and breathe the free air of America is more than welcome to. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/68 "2005-05-07T20:27:27Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > My personal answer would be “allow the number of people in that is in the economic best interests of the country” But illegal immigration skews the numbers and control mechanisms that are used to accomplish that. ---
**Author:** ![griffen2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce7236/32.png) [@griffen2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffen2)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/69 "2005-05-07T20:28:03Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Why don’t you answer my question? At what point would you close the door? 2 billion? 6? I don’t see a reason to ever “close the door”. If there’s a demand for these people’s services then let them come in. Supply and demand and all that. Of course, spongers should be rooted out but you don’t seem willing to tolerate the presence of _any_ illegal immigrants, including those who just want to work. May I ask what, precisely, is it about being born in a particular country which entitles you to a job over a foreigner willing to do the same work for less? ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/70 "2005-05-07T20:44:22Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > But illegal immigration skews the numbers and control mechanisms that are used to accomplish that. I was, of course, referring to legal immigration. I tend to agree that illegal immigration is a problem. Depending on what the economic benefit of masses of people streaming across are, it must either be halted or converted into masses of people legally streaming across (or, something somewhere in the middle). ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/71 "2005-05-07T20:45:26Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The results of the last presidential election would seem to indicate exactly that. 🆒 Hell, you can add the past 4presidential elections with that as well. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/72 "2005-05-07T20:54:21Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Are you saying that you would allow every single human being that wanted in, in? Yes, let them all in. If they can get here, and they can work, then we’ve got room for them. The door should never be closed. The very concept of an “illegal” immigrant is abhorrent. The right to pull up your stakes seek a better life for yourself and your family some where else ought to be a fundamental human right. ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/73 "2005-05-07T20:57:58Z")
Uh, we used to have the bracero program for Mexican farmworkers, European countries have guest worker programs. Why not here and now? Is forcing poor people to risk and often lose their life crossing the desert really a good way to control immigration? Does controlling border crossing increase our national security? Does me asking the above questions prove I’m a bigot? ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/74 "2005-05-07T21:01:50Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > And after he said it he could have been picked up in the hall on his way out. I’ve been to these hearings. Lots of them. Almost everyone gets to speak. And the Capitol Cops, if not in the hearing room, are standing right outside the door. What’s the problem? Morality, decency, kindness, open-mindedness. Turning in a wetback (so sue me) in this situation who does nothing more than violate immigration law (1st offence isn’t even criminal) is just a chickenshit thing to do. This old boy pays sales taxes and contributes to property, gross receipts, and income taxes being paid. It’s not the end of the world that he gives his opinion in a political forum. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/75 "2005-05-07T21:09:24Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > And after he said it he could have been picked up in the hall on his way out. I’ve been to these hearings. Lots of them. Almost everyone gets to speak. And the Capitol Cops, if not in the hearing room, are standing right outside the door. What’s the problem? Right. And no illegal immigrant will ever again dare to speak up at one of these open meetings, for fear of being deported. I think it’s more important to get all views on this issue, especially from the people being most effected by it, than to take the chance to scoop up one lone illegal and shut down any future hope of a truly open exchange of ideas on a vitally important issue that, on a national scale, is intrinsically tied to both foreign and domestic policy. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/76 "2005-05-07T21:10:30Z")
> [@Nocturne](#): > > I’m not about to pit you for this, but do you know how hard it’s gotten for some people to “come here legally”? Not even being married to an American while in America is good enough anymore, for starters. Fiancé visas are hell on earth as well. > > So while I see the silliness of allowing an illegal immigrant to testify in a case like this, please understand that it is not easy to immigrate to America legally. (I’ve seen the papers for working visas too–it’s even worse as far as legal rigmarole goes.) And if American weren’t swamped with illegal immigrants, it might have a mind to increase the quotas on the legal ones. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/77 "2005-05-07T21:12:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yes, let them all in. If they can get here, and they can work, then we’ve got room for them. The door should never be closed. The very concept of an “illegal” immigrant is abhorrent. The right to pull up your stakes seek a better life for yourself and your family some where else ought to be a fundamental human right. Well, there’s nothing left to argue, then. If you actually believe that, I can’t see what you and I can discuss. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/78 "2005-05-07T21:13:15Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > And if American weren’t swamped with illegal immigrants, it might have a mind to increase the quotas on the legal ones. But **Nocturne** was discussing the difficulties for someone who is applying for entry as a spouse of a US citizen. As far as i’m aware, quotas do not apply to such applicants anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/79 "2005-05-07T21:15:45Z")
Plus there’s the whole point of controlling what criminals or terrorists get into the country. “We’ve got enough already, thanks. We don’t need yours.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789/80 "2005-05-07T23:05:08Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > Plus there’s the whole point of controlling what criminals or terrorists get into the country. Except that, to my knowledge, every terrorist act commited on US soil was commited by someone who was in the country legally. As for criminals, lets start by shutting down the inumerable networks set up to funnel illegal immigrants into our country… by removing the necessity for them in the first place. It’s a lot harder for a criminal to sneak in when you don’t have hordes of otherwise law-abiding citizens coming over the border to act as cover, and an entire industry based around facilitating such illicit entries. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-reason-why-this-country-is-so-fucked/302789.md?page=5)