# Another recount circus? Florida. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 2, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638 "2016-12-02T15:05:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/1 "2016-12-02T15:05:43Z")
A group is trying to raise money to file a suit contesting Florida’s results. They say they need $50,000 to file the suit by the deadline, which is today. It appears that they’ve raised the necessary funds. [https://protectourelections.nationbuilder.com/florida\_recount](https://protectourelections.nationbuilder.com/florida_recount) > [@](#): > > In Florida, the infamous DS-200 optical scan machine is in use in many parts of the state. Affidavits from voters illegally turned away from the polls are being gathered. And county election officials are reporting that 25,000 absentee ballots were requested but never sent out in Broward County alone. By my calculations, they’d have to shift 56,456 votes to give Clinton a 1 vote Florida victory. That assumes that they’d even win the suit and can have a recount. Could we see another Florida recount drama like in 2000? Florida’s 29 votes by themselves wouldn’t make a difference, but faithless electors could in theory make the difference. > **[Skipping school: Faithless electors are planning their protest votes against...](https://www.salon.com/2016/12/01/skipping-school-faithless-electors-are-planning-their-protest-votes-against-donald-trump/)** > > Calling themselves "Hamilton electors," organizers plan to vote against Donald Trump > [@](#): > > As The Denver Post reported on Wednesday, a group of electoral college voters from Colorado dubbed themselves the “Hamilton electors” and filed paperwork on Tuesday with the Colorado Secretary of State to create a 527 group, allowing them to raise unlimited amounts of donations from individuals, corporations and labor unions. Their goal? To convince as many Republican electors as possible to defect from the Trump camp. If enough are swayed to do this, they would either cause a deadlock in the Electoral College (throwing the election to the House of Representatives) or result in the election of an entirely different candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/2 "2016-12-02T15:14:38Z")
It’s kind of creepy having all these groups purposed to move from the choice of the people \* to an appointed leader. - Idiots though they be. ---
**Author:** ![GoodOmens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@GoodOmens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoodOmens)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/3 "2016-12-02T15:17:43Z")
Wouldn’t verifying that the vote count is correct actually, by definition, count as enforcing the choice of the people? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/4 "2016-12-02T15:20:15Z")
> [@GoodOmens](#): > > Wouldn’t verifying that the vote count is correct actually, by definition, count as enforcing the choice of the people? Shhhhh…! You weren’t supposed to figure that out until February… ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/5 "2016-12-02T15:33:37Z")
> [@GoodOmens](#): > > Wouldn’t verifying that the vote count is correct actually, by definition, count as enforcing the choice of the people? One would think so. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/6 "2016-12-02T15:42:03Z")
It is a circus. Recounts, due to the “fuzziness” of vote counting, whether manual or machine, may change the results by a couple hundred votes in the state. Not by 50K. So, if any group has the lofty goal of improving the public’s confidence in vote counting, they can easily do it, without lawsuits or dramatics, by counting the votes, slowly and precisely, with no pressing deadlines, several months after the election. Like what was done in Florida in the year following the 2000 election. By the way - Wisconsin recount so far I think increased Trump’s total by a couple of votes. > **[Wisconsin Recount Results: Updates, Videos & Photos](https://heavy.com/news/2016/12/wisconsin-recount-results-daily-update-trump-lead-clinton-spreadsheet-votes-status-live-stream-livestream-video-videos-photos-updates-latest-returns-cost-rules-news/)** > > Wisconsin recount results are trickling in and, on day one, Donald Trump gained a few votes against Hillary Clinton. See results, live videos, updates, photos. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/7 "2016-12-02T15:50:47Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > It’s kind of creepy having all these groups purposed to move from the choice of the people \* to an appointed leader. > > - Idiots though they be. To be fair at least 2.5 million more people voted for Clinton than Trump, but that’s irrelevant because of the Electoral College. As to the OP; I think a Florida recount is even more of sideshow than Jill Stein’s efforts. This is just fodder for SNL skits. All its going accomplish is another Trump tantrum. Although it would be hilarious if the GOP appealed to SCOTUS to stop the recount only to have them deadlock 4-4. Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/8 "2016-12-02T16:16:54Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > It’s kind of creepy having all these groups purposed to move from the choice of the people \* to an appointed leader. > > - Idiots though they be. The _people_ chose Hillary, the electoral college **appointed** Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/9 "2016-12-02T16:24:07Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > The _people_ chose Hillary, the electoral college **appointed** Trump. No. There is no popular vote. The US election is 51 separate elections. The people didn’t choose HRC. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/10 "2016-12-02T16:27:54Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > No. There is no popular vote. The US election is 51 separate elections. The people didn’t choose HRC. Of course there’s a popular vote. It has no legal impact but it does exist. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/11 "2016-12-02T16:47:21Z")
Just curious, who is responsible for sending out absentee ballots in Broward County, Florida? I honestly don’t know, but the county voted like 2-1 for Clinton, so my best guess would be that whoever that person is, they are a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/12 "2016-12-02T16:57:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Just curious, who is responsible for sending out absentee ballots in Broward County, Florida? > > I honestly don’t know, but the county voted like 2-1 for Clinton, so my best guess would be that whoever that person is, they are a Democrat. Maybe it would have been 3-1 for Clinton if the ballots had gone out. You don’t rig elections by totally flipping the vote against expectations in any given area (at least not if you’re smart about it). You decrease the margins in areas your opponent is strong and increase them in areas where you’re strong. In a close race that can flip the overall results while more or less maintaining local expectations. I’m not saying that any of that happened, just pointing out that a candidate winning in a given county or precinct doesn’t mean that any rigging must have been in their favor. Edited to add: I may have misunderstood your point. You may have meant that since it was a heavily Democratic county, the person in charge of mailing out the ballots is statistically more likely to be a Dem than a Repub. If that’s the case then I see your point. However, it’s still possible that there could have been human error, which is just as much a problem as deliberate fraud. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/13 "2016-12-02T17:00:21Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Maybe it would have been 3-1 for Clinton if the ballots had gone out. You don’t rig elections by totally flipping the vote against expectations in any given area (at least not if you’re smart about it). You decrease the margins in areas your opponent is strong and increase them in areas where you’re strong. In a close race that can flip the overall results while more or less maintaining local expectations. > > I’m not saying that any of that happened, just pointing out that a candidate winning in a given county or precinct doesn’t mean that any rigging must have been in their favor. I think you missed my point. The ballots would have gone out if someone (almost certainly a Democrat) had done their job properly. That person, not the Republicans or the Russians, is responsible for ballots not being sent out like they were supposed to be in Broward County. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/14 "2016-12-02T17:03:09Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think you missed my point. The ballots would have gone out if someone (almost certainly a Democrat) had done their job properly. That person, not the Republicans or the Russians, is responsible for ballots not being sent out like they were supposed to be in Broward County. Yes, and before I saw this post I realized that I may have misunderstood and then added a mention of that. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/15 "2016-12-02T17:07:23Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Of course there’s a popular vote. It has no legal impact but it does exist. Yes. And football statistics keep track of total game yardage for all teams. Yet no one cares much about that, and it doesn’t decide games’ winners. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/16 "2016-12-02T17:14:16Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Yes, and before I saw this post I realized that I may have misunderstood and then added a mention of that. I agree about the “human error, which is just as much a problem as deliberate fraud.” The voters of Broward County should fire her (although they’ll have to wait another four years to get the chance, because they just re-elected her). BTW, [her name is “Dr. Brenda C. Snipes”](http://www.browardsoe.org/) and [she is a Democrat](http://enr.electionsfl.org/BRO/1642/Summary/). ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/17 "2016-12-02T17:14:52Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Yes. And football statistics keep track of total game yardage for all teams. Yet no one cares much about that, and it doesn’t decide games’ winners. As I said, _it has no legal impact. It doesn’t decide the winner_. I never claimed otherwise, so why are people arguing with me? As to your point about caring about it: Are you seriously comparing football statistics to voting for the President of the United States? Do you seriously believe that the fact that no one cares much about a football statistic logically leads to the conclusion that no one should care about a totally different and much more important thing? I’m beginning to see why this election went the way it did. Too many people were thinking about it as a team sport. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/18 "2016-12-02T17:16:51Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Yes. And football statistics keep track of total game yardage for all teams. Yet no one cares much about that, and it doesn’t decide games’ winners. Otherwise known as: just because a statistic exists doesn’t make it relevant. 😛 A similar game can be played with votes for the House of Representatives. You can aggregate those results nationwide, and decide who should have “won” the House, and by how many representatives. But that’s silly; the result is built in from what happens in each district. The fact that James Clyburn (D) won his district by 110,000 votes, but Mick Mulvaney (R) only won his by 60,000 votes next door doesn’t mean diddly squat. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/19 "2016-12-02T17:19:17Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Otherwise known as: just because a statistic exists doesn’t make it relevant. 😛 > > A similar game can be played with votes for the House of Representatives. You can aggregate those results nationwide, and decide who should have “won” the House, and by how many representatives. But that’s silly; the result is built in from what happens in each district. The fact that James Clyburn (D) won his district by 110,000 votes, but Mick Mulvaney (R) only won his by 60,000 votes next door doesn’t mean diddly squat. Which is, of course, nothing at all like the Presidential vote. Representatives represent the people in their districts. The President represents everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638/20 "2016-12-02T17:19:26Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I’m beginning to see why this election went the way it did. Too many people were thinking about it as a team sport. Of course it’s a “team sport”. Didn’t the fact that there are “teams” (parties) playing it kind of point to that fact? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-recount-circus-florida/773638.md?page=2)