# Another right wing freak spawns gay baby **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 14, 2005, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074 "2005-02-14T20:49:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/61 "2005-02-15T21:51:16Z")
> [@F. U. Shakespeare](#): > > I know he gets very few actual votes… You can say that again. In my town (admittedly a pretty liberal one), there was one precinct that voted something like 98.5% for Obama. The rest of the town was more like 90% or so. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/62 "2005-02-15T22:23:35Z")
> [@F.U. Shakespeare](#): > > … which is not technically legal, but is considered sleazy. should read: > [@](#): > > _… which is not technically **il** legal, but is considered sleazy._ ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/63 "2005-02-15T22:55:17Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > To whom does this refer? Barbara Johnson, the woman referred to in the links that **Abbie Carmichael** posted. Like [this one](http://home.messiah.edu/~chase/h/articles/davies/2.htm), on how to deal with the “grief” of having a gay child. > [@Polycarp](#): > > You may be right – and they may actually be using “homosexual lifestyle” with a legitimate meaning in terms of what “lifestyle” means otherwise, rather than synonymous with being homosexual. It’d be interesting to know more about this. That’s exactly what they’re saying, and there’s nothing “legitimate” about it. It’s how you get comments like Keyes’ “selfish hedonists.” It’s self-serving and hypocritical. It lets people rationalize discrimination and pass off their prejudices about morality as reasoned arguments. It attempts to put the focus on the question “Is homosexuality a choice?” instead of “Does homosexuality matter one damn bit to anyone?” It trivializes the entire civil rights movement in the US to nothing more than “black people are all right because they can’t help being black; but those homos should just stop acting all gay and shut up already.” It’s disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/64 "2005-02-15T23:20:36Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I suppose the OP is claiming that left-wingers can’t be equally anti-gay. You know, people like Hitler and Stalin. His politics are irrelevant. Wow, I expect threads like this to get Godwinized in the Pit but wasn’t expecting it in MPSIMS. Hope you didn’t bang your chin with that knee jerking so hard. > [@Quartz](#): > > Anyway, I don’t know the guy from Adam, but I can see a (very distasteful) method in his action: not only has she angered him but there’s little chance of her providing him with grandchildren. Where to start with the fuck-uped-ness of this statement? > [@Quartz](#): > > But that’s so cold-blooded it leaves me shaking. Good to know there’s some outrage mixed in with your outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/65 "2005-02-16T00:14:37Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Barbara Johnson, the woman referred to in the links that **Abbie Carmichael** posted. Like [this one](http://home.messiah.edu/~chase/h/articles/davies/2.htm), on how to deal with the “grief” of having a gay child. I don’t know for sure – but my earlier impression was that what Spatula was trying to do was to get parents et al. past shock to _acceptance_ – sort of an evangelical PFLAG. I’d be glad to be proven wrong, and the more I see of material on them, the more I read it as yet another instance that mealy-mouthed “we’re not condemning, really; we’re just standing up for…” BS. If someone has more information on specifically where they’re coming from, I’d enjoy seeing it. > [@](#): > > That’s exactly what they’re saying, and there’s nothing “legitimate” about it. It’s how you get comments like Keyes’ “selfish hedonists.” It’s self-serving and hypocritical. It lets people rationalize discrimination and pass off their prejudices about morality as reasoned arguments. It attempts to put the focus on the question “Is homosexuality a choice?” instead of “Does homosexuality matter one damn bit to anyone?” It trivializes the entire civil rights movement in the US to nothing more than “black people are all right because they can’t help being black; but those homos should just stop acting all gay and shut up already.” It’s disgusting. Whenever I hear “the homosexual lifestyle” I cringe as much as any gay person – it’s a vile way of relegating people to a “chosen” subculture. But over the past year as I’ve argued with conservative Christians, I’ve found that a few use a variation on the phrase (which always gets picked up by the Falwells and Dobsons of the world as the classic “the homosexual lifestyle”) to reference the rather hedonistic club scene that figures greatly into the obnoxious stereotype of homosexual-as-profligate – but that those few at least **do** draw a distinction between that (for which “lifestyle” may be an appropriate word choice), and, say, a gay couple in a suburban split-level raising children, whose most hedonistic excitement is bidding and making a small slam at bridge. Not exactly total acceptance, but given their moral codes, a bit of progress beyond the Great Divide that seems evident in most polemics. It was to that that I was referring in responding to **Abbie**. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/66 "2005-02-16T02:11:03Z")
This is so weird. There were rumors going around before the election that Maya Keyes was gay, and her dad stomped them out loudly. Trying to figure out all of the politics behind all of his decisions is hurting my head. Has he gone back to Maryland yet? We don’t want him in Illinois. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/67 "2005-02-16T02:43:49Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > Give the guy points for not being a hypocrite. He may be a crazed lunatic…but it appears he’s a _sincere_ crazed lunatic. Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile. — Kurt Vonnegut Jr., from “Mother Night” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/68 "2005-02-16T03:15:59Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Actually the OP made no such claim. It’s a figment of your imagination. But perhaps you can enlighten us as to which U.S. “left-wing” politicians or activists are anti-gay. I’ll give you Betty Freiden; but perhaps you could deal with the present instead. Betty Friedan’s anti-gay? What’s up with that? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/69 "2005-02-16T03:19:51Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Now that I think about it, she also thinks homosexuality is caused by demons. So she probably believes that me playing D&D back in the early 80s invited the demon into my life that caused me to be gay. > > AD&D, therefore, is the root cause of homosexuality. Gee, I was already gay (and pagan!) by the time I started playing D&D. My character is a half-elf sorcerer and part-time boywhore, though, so I guess that sort of makes up for it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/70 "2005-02-16T03:21:28Z")
Guin, in 1970 Friedan defeated a NOW resolution calling for lesbian rights, and referred to lesbians in the feminist movement as “the Lavender Menace”. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/71 "2005-02-16T03:30:00Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Guin, in 1970 Friedan defeated a NOW resolution calling for lesbian rights, and referred to lesbians in the feminist movement as “the Lavender Menace”. Damn, that’s fucked up. I know some real hardcore nutty feminists have it in for gay men and transgendered persons, but lesbians? Hell, some of them try to claim you can’t be a TRUE Radical Hardcore Feminist Womon without being a lesbian. That’s weird. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/72 "2005-02-16T03:55:02Z")
That’s the early second wave for you,. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/73 "2005-02-16T04:03:33Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > It lets people rationalize discrimination and pass off their prejudices about morality as reasoned arguments. It attempts to put the focus on the question “Is homosexuality a choice?” instead of “Does homosexuality matter one damn bit to anyone?” It trivializes the entire civil rights movement in the US to nothing more than “black people are all right because they can’t help being black; but those homos should just stop acting all gay and shut up already.” It’s disgusting. It’s like back in the “old days” when being left handed was punishable. We laugh at it now, but are really still doing the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/74 "2005-02-16T05:19:54Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I don’t know for sure – but my earlier impression was that what Spatula was trying to do was to get parents et al. past shock to _acceptance_ – sort of an evangelical PFLAG. I’d be glad to be proven wrong, and the more I see of material on them, the more I read it as yet another instance that mealy-mouthed “we’re not condemning, really; we’re just standing up for…” BS. If someone has more information on specifically where they’re coming from, I’d enjoy seeing it. You’d have to be the one to find out; I have to confess I wasn’t able to get through all of **Abbie Carmichael’s** first link because I found it repulsive. The sheer **selfishness** of the woman for focusing on how her son’s sexual orientation affected _her_, how _she_ had to deal with it, and how he was only accepted once he renounced his sexual orientation and lived his life by her rules – with no mention of how _he_ had to deal with being kicked out of his mother’s life for so many years. Instead of making the distinction between his self-destructive and empty acts (his “lifestyle”) and his homosexuality, she made him equate the two and believe that he would never be capable of living a good life without renouncing his sexuality. If I ever saw the hateful woman in person, I’d be glad to tell her where she can stick her damn geraniums. > [@Polycarp](#): > > Whenever I hear “the homosexual lifestyle” I cringe as much as any gay person – it’s a vile way of relegating people to a “chosen” subculture. But over the past year as I’ve argued with conservative Christians, I’ve found that a few use a variation on the phrase (which always gets picked up by the Falwells and Dobsons of the world as the classic “the homosexual lifestyle”) to reference the rather hedonistic club scene that figures greatly into the obnoxious stereotype of homosexual-as-profligate – but that those few at least **do** draw a distinction between that (for which “lifestyle” may be an appropriate word choice), and, say, a gay couple in a suburban split-level raising children, whose most hedonistic excitement is bidding and making a small slam at bridge. Not exactly total acceptance, but given their moral codes, a bit of progress beyond the Great Divide that seems evident in most polemics. It was to that that I was referring in responding to **Abbie**. And again what I’m saying is that that “distinction” is an artificial one that exists only when it’s convenient to their argument and when it makes them feel better about themselves. They can say “well, I’m not a bigot, because I acknowledge that they don’t choose the _desire_, they only choose whether or not to _act_ on that desire.” And I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, to think that they just aren’t putting enough thought into the question or that they’re just suffering from a lack of empathy. To them, it would be preferable that I spend the remaining 40-some-odd years on Earth (God willing), constantly feeling ashamed of my desires, never able to enjoy the romantic love of another human being, never able to have that love acknowledged as something special, because just the thought of something as mundane as sexual intercourse with another consenting adult makes them uncomfortable. Homosexuality is either innate or behavioral as it suits them. They say that gay people are fornicators and hedonists, and they use that to justify marriage bans, which would allow gay couples to acknowledge that their union is lifelong and devoted and sacred. They say that gay people are selfish, and use that to justify keeping gay couples from adopting a child and giving the child what he or she needs to grow up healthy and loved. I have no sympathy for these people, I see no concessions, I see nothing of merit in their arguments. I see only selfishness and hypocrisy and self-righteous condemnation. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/75 "2005-02-16T08:01:00Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Anyway, I don’t know the guy from Adam, but I can see a (very distasteful) method in his action: not only has she angered him but there’s little chance of her providing him with grandchildren. Whaddaya mean? She’s a turkey baster away from having a bun in the oven! ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/76 "2005-02-16T15:13:49Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I suppose the OP is claiming that left-wingers can’t be equally anti-gay. You know, people like Hitler and Stalin… You’re saying Hitler was a left-winger? Dude, remind me to never go to any political rallies with you. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/77 "2005-02-16T18:18:21Z")
> [@F. U. Shakespeare](#): > > It amazes me that conservatives still take this guy seriously. I know he gets very few actual votes, but the concensus I hear from my conservative friends who don’t vote for him isn’t that he’s corrupt and self-serving, but that he’s too hard-line to be electable. Actually, a few of my conservative friends are perceptive enough to realize that he is both. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/78 "2005-02-16T18:23:29Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > black people are all right because they can’t help being black If they find the originator of this statement, they’ll only need eleven more people with no preconceived knowledge or ideas concerning Michael Jackson. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/79 "2005-02-16T19:00:24Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Wow, I expect threads like this to get Godwinized in the Pit but wasn’t expecting it in MPSIMS. > > Hope you didn’t bang your chin with that knee jerking so hard. > > Where to start with the fuck-uped-ness of this statement? > Good to know there’s some outrage mixed in with your outrage. Perhaps you’ve forgotten that Godwin only applies to posters? Perhaps you’ve also forgotten that Hitler was head of the National **Socialist** party? Perhaps you’ve forgotten that Stalin was a communist? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074/80 "2005-02-16T19:17:06Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Perhaps you’ve also forgotten that Hitler was head of the National **Socialist** party? Is that like the now-defunct German Democratic Republic being democratic? Or the People’s Republic of China actually being owned by the people? Or The Most Glorious Supreme Beloved Leader His Excellency Kim Jong-Il actually being glorious, supreme, beloved or excellent? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-right-wing-freak-spawns-gay-baby/290074.md?page=5)