# Another Romney story: Ann Romney and the drugged horse **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 5, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319 "2012-07-05T15:16:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319/41 "2012-07-09T09:46:56Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > Trying to make hay from such a minor story just plays into the Fox News game. I don’t get good vibes when I see Dems stooping to their level. Me neither, and I’m not saying that they should, but that doesn’t mean I’m not surprised when they don’t. My opinion of Democratic politicos may be higher than that of Republican ones, but only in the “cockroaches are more evolved than slime mold” sense. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319/42 "2012-07-09T14:44:50Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Style isn’t subjective ? 🙂 **RNATB** ’s post said that anything with “wholly subjective scoring” isn’t a sport. The scoring in ski jumping is only partially subjective. The amount of subjectivity in the others might be open to a bit of debate. There are some calls that are completely objective. If a gymnast falls off the balance beam, for example, there is a specific deduction taken from her score. And I think there are usually published standards for how certain moves are to be performed. A diver is supposed to enter the water with toes pointed and feet together; the judges don’t just make up their own likes and dislikes and keep them secret. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319/43 "2012-07-09T16:27:20Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > You can take the quotes off that word, mister; it’s mentally and physically demanding, even gruelling, to do well at dressage, especially at the upper levels – or do you regard, say, figure skating as “prissy” and not a genuine athletic endeavor? Oh come on, you sit on the horse and it prances. Gimme a B, gimme an F, gimme a D. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319/44 "2012-07-09T16:31:38Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Oh come on, you sit on the horse and it prances. Gimme a B, gimme an F, gimme a D. You clearly have no idea of what riding involves, so there’s no point in pursuing this point further with you. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319/45 "2012-07-09T16:57:02Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > **RNATB** ’s post said that anything with “wholly subjective scoring” isn’t a sport. The scoring in ski jumping is only partially subjective. > > The amount of subjectivity in the others might be open to a bit of debate. There are some calls that are completely objective. If a gymnast falls off the balance beam, for example, there is a specific deduction taken from her score. And I think there are usually published standards for how certain moves are to be performed. A diver is supposed to enter the water with toes pointed and feet together; the judges don’t just make up their own likes and dislikes and keep them secret. Yeah, but by that argument then ice skating, boxing, diving, gymnastics and, yes, dressage style scores are also not wholly subjective either - they do have their guidelines and standards as well. It’s not as straightforward as “triple lutz starting from the front - 12.5 points, 8.5 if back not totally straight and -4 if the left skate sprays on the landing”, but it’s not pure whimsy either (I think the skating scoring got overhauled some time ago too, to eliminate at least some of the bias and arcane procedures, but it’s been a long while since I’ve lived with my mum & sister and thus escaped the tyranny of having to watch fucking ice skating :)). ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319/46 "2012-07-09T17:25:27Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Yeah, but by that argument then ice skating, boxing, diving, gymnastics and, yes, dressage style scores are also not wholly subjective either - they do have their guidelines and standards as well. It’s not as straightforward as “triple lutz starting from the front - 12.5 points, 8.5 if back not totally straight and -4 if the left skate sprays on the landing”, but it’s not pure whimsy either That was sort of my point; every sport has a defined standard the competitors are trying to achieve. Some are judged, but it’s not quite as arbitrary as it sounds. It’s the X-Games ones that drive me crazy. I honestly can’t tell what makes one front-side-seven-twenty-crotch-grab-to-fakey better than another. > [@](#): > > (I think the skating scoring got overhauled some time ago too, to eliminate at least some of the bias and arcane procedures, but it’s been a long while since I’ve lived with my mum & sister and thus escaped the tyranny of having to watch fucking ice skating :)). I don’t watch it, either, but any sport that requires women to wear short skirts can’t be all bad. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319/47 "2012-07-09T19:32:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > ☹ Based on the thread title, I was hoping for a story a lot juicier than **that!** [Indeed.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FtwZQ80V2k) ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319/48 "2012-07-09T23:46:35Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > I posted the following at Booman Tribune when the issue arose; being a lazy sumbitch I’m copying and pasting here: > > As much as I despise Romney and all he stands for, I feel compelled by fairness to partially defend Ann in this. I’ve read up on the case as much as possible, and from that, and what I know of the horse world (quite a lot), it appears to me that her longtime trainer and the horse’s vet were more likely responsible for the pain-masking drugs that fooled the purchaser’s vet in judging the horse’s soundness. I doubt they briefed Ann on every detail of the scheme; from what I’ve read it appears that Jan Ebeling, the German-born trainer, is a typical Teutonic dressage control freak and dominates his clients. He’s far more likely to dictate what will be and only tell her what he thinks she needs to know. > > I could, of course, be wrong. But everything I’ve read on it points that way. > > ```auto > > Oh, and you could riposte that hiring that kind of person says something about the Romneys; but I gotta tell ya, the upper echelons of dressage are chockful of control-freak Europeans (and Americans), not to mention drugging, abusive training, and lame horse selling. Even nonabusive training takes years and is physically tough on the horses. > > ``` > [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Trainer to Ann: "Nonsense! You know how upset Super Hit always is when a vet is working on him, and always needs a light sedative for everyone’s safety and comfort; that’s all he had, just the usual. I don’t know where this lab is getting these other two drug traces from – maybe they don’t clean their equipment properly? > > "And this buyer who’s suing – look, her own vet acknowledged he knew the horse had been medicated, and he told her about Super Hit’s pre-existing condition, not to mention she was riding the horse for a year before she decided he was unfit for further use. Who knows what sort of damage she did to him herself? And now she’s trying to pass the blame off onto us and extract money from us to to pay for her own stupid mistakes. This is all just a load of nonsense from a greedy golddigger who sees your wealth as her own little piggybank. > > “Now, enough of that. I’m delighted to tell you that Rafalca is coming along beautifully and the odds are excellent that the selection committee will pick her for the Olympics. Let’s go look at her while the staff get your horse ready for your lesson today.” > > Sorry, **Steve** , but your scenario would never happen in the Romney dressage world. > [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Thanks. I can’t stand Mitt, and I doubt Ann has the faintest idea what life is really like outside her pretty little bubble of lifelong privilege, but I’m not going to sit quietly by and let unfair innuendo go unchallenged when I know what’s far more likely to be true. > > Especially when the people criticizing have no idea how much hard sweaty work it is to get to [here](http://inlinethumb55.webshots.com/50806/1156994881000735275S600x600Q85.jpg) even when that “here” is the very lowest level of the dressage world! > > I take your point, but if one defines sport in terms of the physical and mental efforts required to perform it rather than the scoring of performance in competition, then I contend you are wrong. “…typical Teutonic dressage control freak…” You’re kinda scary, you know that? 🆒 Poor Mrs. Romney! If Mittens wins, she’s going to have to live in an ugly old house in a bad neighborhood, cut off from her friends, and people are going to say mean things about her and her husband. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319/49 "2012-07-10T02:16:55Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > “…typical Teutonic dressage control freak…” > > You’re kinda scary, you know that? 🆒 Well, I _am_ of German extraction on my father’s side… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319/50 "2012-07-10T05:18:40Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Oh come on, you sit on the horse and it prances. Gimme a B, gimme an F, gimme a D. B,F,D is indeed pretty simple, it’s just a curved arc through the lower left corner of the arena. And it’s not normally done prancing. But there are much more complicated maneuvers in dressage test, especially at this upper level. So what’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319/51 "2012-07-10T10:17:19Z")
What if they did dressage on ice skates? Would you watch then? Because ice skating horses would be awesome. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319/52 "2012-07-10T15:16:51Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > What if they did dressage on ice skates? Would you watch then? > > Because ice skating horses would be awesome. Ice skating horses are fine. But I draw the line at ice _dancing_ horses, dadgummit! ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319/53 "2012-07-10T15:35:35Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > B,F,D is indeed pretty simple, it’s just a curved arc through the lower left corner of the arena. And it’s not normally done prancing. > > But there are much more complicated maneuvers in dressage test, especially at this upper level. So what’s your point? 😃 Nicely done; although the arc from F to D can be a bit tricky on a big TB who says “That’s not my supple side!” For those still in the dark: [This.](http://www.equine-world.co.uk/horse_sports/horse_pics/40x20m.jpg) > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Gyrate > > What if they did dressage on ice skates? Would you watch then? > > Because ice skating horses would be awesome. Best I could do: [A tolt on ice.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tNxeaAHEQ8) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319/54 "2012-07-10T20:41:26Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > 😃 Nicely done; although the arc from F to D can be a bit tricky on a big TB who says “That’s not my supple side!” Then they should get a good [Morgan](http://www.scc.net/~t-bonham/Technique075.jpg)! ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319/55 "2012-07-10T21:47:29Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Then they should get a good [Morgan](http://www.scc.net/~t-bonham/Technique075.jpg)! Yeh, those little guys are handy enough to [make the tighter turns](http://image87.webshots.com/187/3/99/31/2515399310000735275rGiehF_ph.jpg), though they’re not exactly in the Warmblood league when it comes to [piaffe](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bOD-7IqDUY). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-romney-story-ann-romney-and-the-drugged-horse/627319.md?page=2)