# Another School Shooting \[Stoneman Douglas\] (2/14/2018) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 14, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843 "2018-02-14T20:22:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/181 "2018-02-16T17:16:19Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > I suppose that liberals don’t want to deal with mental health issues because that would mean getting involved with and spending real time with unpleasant people who don’t make good social companions. That takes real time and effort. Learning more about those people and having people who are conscious of their ups and downs might prevent some, though certainly not all tragedies. > > I am not saying it is the role of untrained people to be psychologists. Far from it. But when people are left friendless for long periods, and no one reaches out to them a tragedy will sometimes occur. It is our job, as a society, to know our neighbors, students and colleagues. > > I feel that forming real communities will solve some of these problems. Trying to remove the implements of crime from people who are far beyond obeying any law of any kind is futile and useless. > > It is far easier and more satisfying to inveigh against guns and racism. It feels good and typical for liberals that’s what matters as was pointed out here. Oh, please tell me more about how conservatives try and try and try to improve the way we deal with mental health issues, both on a policy and a personal level. Because on a policy level, I saw a concerted effort last year to remove mental health services as an essential benefit from health insurance policy. And a lot of social programs that may have helped avert problems were gutted. Did I miss some concerted R effort to funnel money into mental health issues? On a personal level,I don’t know many conservatives that take a compassionate interest in befriending mentally disturbed people. They DID put their poster child in the White House - maybe that is what you are referring to. Ive done way more as a private citizen than most people. Way more than you have, I imagine. I visit with the disabled vets in my neighborhood. I’m actually pretty good at derailing the PSTD episodes if I’m there when they start. I fostered a young man with socialization problems for several years. I mistakenly thought that if he had love and security he would find a path through this world. But he would not take medication. He would not seek counseling - he was convinced I would get to the counselors and conspire against him. He didn’t have friends because his friends alway did horrible things to him. One of them reached out and took a French fry from his fast food meal. Another one “ looked st him funny and was thinking bad things about him”. I finally had to throw him out, mostly because he was using my home as a place to isolate and refusing to get help. Now he has all sorts of professional counselors working with him. These counselors call me on occasion. They seem to be as vexed as I was. And I had absolutely no help or resources when he lived with me. And I tried but he was a legal adult and I wasn’t family. When the problems became serious I spend days bouncing around between police stations and courthouses and service agencies to no avail. I still take him out for a meal on occasion but he gets nervous if I pick the restaurant. He thinks I might be conspiring with them to poison him. Sorry for the digression, but the reasons that disturbed people socially isolatate is not a lack of effort on the part of the community. They don’t go on shooting sprees because liberals are too good to be friends with them seems to be what you are implying. If your experiences are different from mine, please tell me about them. I’d like to know all the details about how YOU reached out to the mentally disturbed and averted tragedy. How many people did you reach out to and what did you exactly? Did they become stable immediately once you provided community and support or did it take time? Did they see your efforts in the same way you did or did their mental condition cause them to misinterpret them? Because I tried for a long time and I couldn’t do it but you’re making it sound really easy. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/182 "2018-02-16T17:19:54Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Guess what? Schools ARE active zones. Why, you ask? Because they are widely advertised as being GUN-FREE, which translates into TARGET-RICH ENVIRONMENT. {…} I’m so tempted to ask you some questions about the law that you seem to be referencing . . . I’m so smart that I know it would be a waste of my time. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/183 "2018-02-16T17:29:02Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Guess what? Schools ARE active zones. Why, you ask? Because they are widely advertised as being GUN-FREE, which translates into TARGET-RICH ENVIRONMENT. Why do you think so many shooters go after schools in the first place? Well now, this puzzles me. In the UK pretty much every facility and organisation of any kind is gun free, we are well known for it. We also have nut-jobs and underclass criminals so I’m at a loss to understand why we don’t have a comparable pro-rata level of atrocity. There’s something I’m missing here but I can’t quite put my finger on it. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/184 "2018-02-16T18:15:53Z")
I think I have identified the problem. [Classrooms on lockdown](http://www.kiro7.com/news/local/highline-college-locked-down-for-reports-of-gunfire-on-campus/701283395) at Highline Community College after reports of gunfire. This is 2700 miles across to the opposite corner of the country from Parkland FL. Clearly the problem is: schools. Just too many of the damn things. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/185 "2018-02-16T18:39:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How else are you going to defeat the jackboots of tyranny when they come to grab 'em? > > **Loach** , I have no idea what you’re on about. Literally. You’re incoherent. [Moderating] “Take it to ATMB” seems pretty coherent, to me. I can see that it might not have been clear if **Loach** was acting as a moderator when he posted that. I hope this note removes any ambiguity. If you want to argue against a mod ruling, do it in ATMB. Any more posts about it here will result in a warning. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/186 "2018-02-16T19:08:45Z")
"But the “Bad guys"TM will _always_ be able to get guns.” Tell that to Jeffrey Neville. Do you know who Jeffrey Neville is? Probably not. Jeffrey Neville is the Flint police officer stabbed in the neck by a terrorist at Bishop international airport. Turns out that this terrorist tried to buy a gun and didn’t pass the background check. Officer Neville and god-knows-how-many others at that airport are alive _today_ because the gun laws _worked._ How many others have been saved by gun laws. We don’t know and we don’t know their names, we never will. Anymore than we can know the names of people saved by airbags or seat belts. But we know his name and you will hear it every time I see somebody say: "But the bad guys will always be able to get guns. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/187 "2018-02-16T19:20:55Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Guess what? Schools ARE active zones. Why, you ask? Because they are widely advertised as being GUN-FREE, which translates into TARGET-RICH ENVIRONMENT. Why do you think so many shooters go after schools in the first place? > > Nobody likes school shootings, so let’s do something positive about the problem instead of running around like Chicken Little and clucking about banning guns and ammunition. Some states already are doing something positive: [https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/07/30/at-least-7-states-now-have-armed-staff-in-schools](https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/07/30/at-least-7-states-now-have-armed-staff-in-schools) There was already an armed guard at the school, idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/188 "2018-02-16T19:28:59Z")
I am loving the kids who are not sitting by as the rightwingnuts tweet their thoughts and prayers. One of them even told “fucking piece of shit” Trump that she didn’t want his condolences. I’ve seen several of these kids going off on Republicans in the wake of the shooting at their school. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/189 "2018-02-16T19:39:50Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I am loving the kids who are not sitting by as the rightwingnuts tweet their thoughts and prayers. One of them even told “fucking piece of shit” Trump that she didn’t want his condolences. > I’ve seen several of these kids going off on Republicans in the wake of the shooting at their school. Good for her. Trump IS a fucking piece of shit". ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/190 "2018-02-16T19:55:13Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I’m so tempted to ask you some questions about the law that you seem to be referencing . . . I’m so smart that I know it would be a waste of my time. I haven’t referenced any law. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/191 "2018-02-16T20:02:40Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I haven’t referenced any law. So this, > [@Clothahump](#): > > {…} Because they are widely advertised as being GUN-FREE, {…} has absolutely nothing to do with the “Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990”? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/192 "2018-02-16T20:15:13Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I am loving the kids who are not sitting by as the rightwingnuts tweet their thoughts and prayers. One of them even told “fucking piece of shit” Trump that she didn’t want his condolences. > I’ve seen several of these kids going off on Republicans in the wake of the shooting at their school. One example: > **[Parkland survivor slams GOP for shrugging off dead kids -- but freaking out...](https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/parkland-survivor-slams-gop-shrugging-off-dead-kids-freaking-rainbow-wedding-cakes/#.Woczys3rbi0.twitter)** > > Speaking with CNN host Anderson Cooper, a survivor of the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, lambasted Republicans who sell their votes to the NRA -- taking specific aim at his Republican U.S. senator and... ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/193 "2018-02-16T20:38:43Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > There was already an armed guard at the school, idiot. Yes. One guy, and he never got to the shooter. Imagine what the result would have been if the teachers had responded. The one guy that got shot while physically shielding his students - imagine what the result might have been if he had been armed and took out the shooter. It’s time to live in the real world, people. Gun and ammo control is NOT the answer and never will be. Having the media not turn incidents like this into a circus is a big step forward. Training and arming the staff is a bigger step. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/194 "2018-02-16T20:40:43Z")
Because if there’s one thing that will reduce the number of shootings in this country, it’s making damned sure that everyone has a gun, right? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/195 "2018-02-16T20:46:27Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Because if there’s one thing that will reduce the number of shootings in this country, it’s making damned sure that everyone has a gun, right? Minnesota: Rrecord number of gun ownership; lowest violent crime rate in 50 years. [Cite](http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2018/02/15/reality-check-gun-permit-background-checks/) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/196 "2018-02-16T20:51:18Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Imagine what the result would have been if the teachers had responded. The one guy that got shot while physically shielding his students - imagine what the result might have been if he had been armed and took out the shooter. I’m trying. Could you repeat it again? Much slower this time. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/197 "2018-02-16T20:54:44Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Minnesota: Rrecord number of gun ownership; lowest violent crime rate in 50 years. > > [Cite](http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2018/02/15/reality-check-gun-permit-background-checks/) As long as we’re playing the correlation implies causation game I’m saying the reason for Minnesota’s low crime rate is the rapid influx of Somalian, Bosnian and East African refuges to the Twin Cities area during those same 50 years. More Muslim immigrants = less crime. Scientific fact. [Cite](http://mnchurches.org/respectfulcommunities/interfaithprogramming/takingheart/MuslimsinMinnesota.html) > [@](#): > > The population of Minnesota Muslims grew most rapidly in the 1990s with the influx of Somalian, Bosnian, and East African refugees. Today there are approximately 150,000 Muslims living in Minnesota, many in the Twin Cities metro area. Fucktard. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/198 "2018-02-16T21:00:27Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Minnesota: Rrecord number of gun ownership; lowest violent crime rate in 50 years. > > [Cite](http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2018/02/15/reality-check-gun-permit-background-checks/) By Jove! I think you’ve just solved Chicago’s problem with gun violence. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/199 "2018-02-16T21:04:31Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The one guy that got shot while physically shielding his students - imagine what the result might have been if he had been armed and took out the shooter. Um, people getting caught in the crossfire? Is this a joke? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843/200 "2018-02-16T21:05:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Um, people getting caught in the crossfire? > > Is this a joke? Well, not the way you tell it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting-stoneman-douglas-2-14-2018/808843.md?page=11)