# Another school shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 14, 2003, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735 "2003-04-14T21:34:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/1 "2003-04-14T21:34:13Z")
[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,84135,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,84135,00.html) How the fuck do these kids get an AK47? What kind of crack are the guards smoking, where a kid can slip past them _and the metal detectors_ with an AK47? How will the NRA spin this? What kind of nut disagrees with banning _all_ assault rifles this instant? Fuck, this is horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Zanshin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e274bd/32.png) [@Zanshin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanshin)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/2 "2003-04-14T21:43:34Z")
Just when I think people can’t sink any lower, they prove me wrong. Poor kids. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_With\_The\_Golden\_Gun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Man\_With\_The\_Golden\_Gun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_With_The_Golden_Gun)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/3 "2003-04-14T21:50:41Z")
You can buy AK-47s at Wal-Mart. Coincidently, there was another school shooting today, also in Louisanna, although it was accidental. ---
**Author:** ![Lucretia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@Lucretia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucretia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/4 "2003-04-14T21:51:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > [B > What kind of nut disagrees with banning _all_ assault rifles this instant? > > Fuck, this is horrible. \*\* _Raises hand_ This kind of nut. Yes, this was horrible. But I’m going to go out on a limb and assume that this gun was not purchased legally. If so, all the bans in the world would not have stopped this. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/5 "2003-04-14T21:53:03Z")
4 suspects, between the ages of 15 and 19. Now I’m sure all the people out there will go blaming GTA, Eminem, and the gun manufacturer, which we all know is the true root of the problem. :rolleyes: On preview, I notice you can get an AK47 at Walmart for which I am speechless. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/6 "2003-04-14T21:58:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lucretia \* > \*\*_Raises hand_ This kind of nut. Yes, this was horrible. But I’m going to go out on a limb and assume that this gun was not purchased legally. If so, all the bans in the world would not have stopped this. \*\* Well, I’ve heard that making things illegal only hurts the people that are law abiding, and I certainly agree with that to a point. I fell though, that they are easier to acquire, if _someone_ is allowed to legally purchase them. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/7 "2003-04-14T22:19:30Z")
Why? The AK-47 simply a smallish semi-automatic rifle. There are dozens of models of guns that perform identically (for all intents and purposes). What makes this one model so particularly vile that it shouldn’t be sold at Wal-mart? And nineteen year-olds with no criminal records are able to legally purchase one. > [@](#): > > How will the NRA spin this? My guess, which is based on NRA statements about previous incidents of this nature, is that the NRA will either **a)** say nothing, or **b)** call the incident a tragedy for the parents and children involved. Not a bit of “spin.” On the other hand, I’d like to see how the anti-gun crowd will “spin” this. Whoops! You’ve already begun by calling for an immediate ban on “all assault rifles,” and labeling anyone who might have a differing opinion a “nut.” But before you start banning _anything_, define “assault rifle” please—in terminology descriptive and narrow enough to be acceptable in a court of law, because surely, a ban of this nature will be challenged. The term “assault rifle” means a very specific thing to the military. It has no real analogue in the civilian world. If I were to make another guess, I’d say that you don’t really know much about the objects you wish to ban. Some additional spin: I note the CNN website is calling the weapon an “automatic rifle.” This is inaccurate. It’s a semi-automatic rifle. There’s a difference between the two terms. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/8 "2003-04-14T22:36:41Z")
> [@](#): > > The gunman managed to slip out of the gym and the suspects were arrested about three blocks away. Good. Give 'im life in prison. And if he accidently trips and falls on the way to the courthouse, I won’t shed no tears. But World Eater, buddy, pal, my dearest of dear friends… let’s not jump to conclusions or get caught up in hysterics. Yes, it was quite the tragedy… but let’s not let our emotional reaction determine our judgments. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/9 "2003-04-14T23:01:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\*Why? The AK-47 simply a smallish semi-automatic rifle. There are dozens of models of guns that perform identically (for all intents and purposes). What makes this one model so particularly vile that it shouldn’t be sold at Wal-mart? \*\* Ok, so let’s include those as well. Perhaps I’m naive here, and I know that this is been tread over 50 million times, but I simply think automatic, and semi automatic weapons should be banned. I know this is a touchy subject, and people think they should have the right to own and all, but what is the point of owning an AK47? Seriously. \*\* > [@](#): > > And nineteen year-olds with no criminal records are able to legally purchase one.\*\* This bothers me, severely. \*\* > [@](#): > > My guess, which is based on NRA statements about previous incidents of this nature, is that the NRA will either **a)** say nothing, or **b)** call the incident a tragedy for the parents and children involved. Not a bit of “spin.” > > On the other hand, I’d like to see how the anti-gun crowd will “spin” this. Whoops! You’ve already begun by calling for an immediate ban on “all assault rifles,” and labeling anyone who might have a differing opinion a “nut.” \*\* All right I’ll have to take that “nut” back, if only for a few minutes. 😃 \*\* > [@](#): > > But before you start banning _anything_, define “assault rifle” please—in terminology descriptive and narrow enough to be acceptable in a court of law, because surely, a ban of this nature will be challenged. The term “assault rifle” means a very specific thing to the military. It has no real analogue in the civilian world. If I were to make another guess, I’d say that you don’t really know much about the objects you wish to ban.\*\* I would say anything above a certain rate of fire, and above a certain ammo capacity, should be banned. Now figuring out that threshold is going to be a huge debate, but I’ll guess that semi automatic and fully automatic weapons would be above _my_ threshold. \*\* > [@](#): > > Some additional spin: I note the CNN website is calling the weapon an “automatic rifle.” This is inaccurate. It’s a semi-automatic rifle. There’s a difference between the two terms. \*\* My understanding is they are both capable of a high rate of fire. I understand **Spoofe** , it just seems like it was time to revisit the question. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/10 "2003-04-14T23:04:58Z")
In common parlance, an “automatic” weapon is often actually a semi-auto. The phrase “fully automatic” has come into existence to help clarify (?) the ambiguity. Trinopus ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/11 "2003-04-14T23:06:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > What kind of nut disagrees with banning _all_ assault rifles this instant? What’s an assault rifle for? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/12 "2003-04-14T23:09:14Z")
> [@](#): > > What kind of nut disagrees with banning all assault rifles this instant? > > Fuck, this is horrible. I am fucking sick of hysteria getting in the way of rational thought. School shootings happen what, once a fucking year? A kid is more likely to get struck by fucking lightning than to die in a school shooting, but does that matter? No. An immediate outcry to ban all “assault rifles” by shrieking anti-gun freaks ensues. Remember the fucking Brady Bill? That was in 1994. They banned the manufacture of new assault rifles. What the hell do you want them to do more, go into peoples houses and start taking away their guns? ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/13 "2003-04-14T23:09:43Z")
If it was gang related, as the story implies, then the boy would probably still be dead regardless of what kind of weapon bans existed. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/14 "2003-04-14T23:15:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Trinopus \* > \*\*In common parlance, an “automatic” weapon is often actually a semi-auto. The phrase “fully automatic” has come into existence to help clarify (?) the ambiguity. > > Trinopus \*\* 😕 😛 ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/15 "2003-04-14T23:19:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blalron \* > \*\*Remember the fucking Brady Bill? That was in 1994. They banned the manufacture of new assault rifles. What the hell do you want them to do more, go into peoples houses and start taking away their guns? \*\* Didn’t someone just post above that 19 year olds with no criminal record could buy an AK47 at Wal-mart? ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/16 "2003-04-14T23:25:25Z")
Assault rifle history. The [Sturmgewehr 44](http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust7.htm). It’s a scary looking automatic rifle with a necked down cartridge. The ammo was slightly less powerful than the standard rifle cartridges of the time, but therefore more could be carried. Recoil was reduced, allowing less skilled marksmen to fire the new weapons. > [@](#): > > Many attempts had been made in several countries including germany during the 1920ies to develop an automatic rifle that combined the characteristics of the submachinegun - a high rate of fire and therefore fire volume - with that of the then usual regular infantry rifle - accuracy and projectile power - while at the same time eliminating the disadvantages of the respective weapon types. Most of these attempts failed, because the conservative authorities did not like the idea or -mostly- because these early weapons tried to use the regular powerful rifle ammunition. I’m more scared of the mentality behind the weapon than the weapon itself. A sniper with a hunting rifle (more accurate and powerful) would be damn dangerous. But, that doesn’t seem to happen as much. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/17 "2003-04-14T23:27:54Z")
Fucking gangbangers. We’ve tolerated this for far too long. ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/18 "2003-04-14T23:29:04Z")
Just to clarify a tad, an assault rifle is one capable of “automatic” fire, as in, it will keep firing as long as the trigger is held down until the magazine is emptied. It can also be selected for single fire, one shot for each trigger pull (what 99% of gun owners and people familiar with firearms know). These types of firearms (such as Al Capone’s favorite tool, the Thompson sub-machine gun) have been banned from private ownership unless you undergo a background check, to include fingerprinting, and paying a fee of approximately $300. There are not a lot of legally owned machine guns running around in the US. As per **S** tandard **O** perating **P** rocedure for almost any of the “Media” in this country pertaining to (Oh, My, God, Goddess, deity of your choice) a child with a gun, the term for any weapon that can fire more than one round without re-loading is an “automatic” rifle, preferably an UZI, or an M-16 variant (see, sniper, Malvo), or the ubiquitous AK-47, which most people in this country are now intimately familiar with after 20+ days of Iraqi news reports. Of course, what the perp’s used in this latest tragedy is not an AK-47, but, What the Hey, why let facts stand in the way of a good story (SOP). For those watching CNN or FOX, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/19 "2003-04-14T23:30:08Z")
> [@](#): > > **World Eater** said: > I know this is a touchy subject, and people think they should have the right to own and all, but what is the point of owning an AK47? Seriously. Groundhogs. Seriously. > [@](#): > > This bothers me, severely. Does it bother you severely that a sixteen year old with no history of drunk driving can legally purchase and operate an automobile, accidents with which more than 50,000 people are killed annually on America’s highways? > [@](#): > > I would say anything above a certain rate of fire, and above a certain ammo capacity, should be banned. Now figuring out that threshold is going to be a huge debate, but I’ll guess that semi automatic and fully automatic weapons would be above my threshold. Then you are free to not buy one. What does this have to do with my AK-47 which is only ever used for removing groundhogs from horse farms and putting holes in paper targets for the enjoyment of the owner? > [@](#): > > Didn’t someone just post above that 19 year olds with no criminal record could buy an AK47 at Wal-mart? Sure, you can go to Wal-Mart and buy a semi-automatic rifle of many types. Of course if it looks too menacing because it has a folding stock and a bayonet lug, it’s illegal, or if it has a flash-hider and a folding stock, it’s illegal, but those cosmetic differences have nothing to do with the actual performance of the rifle. Most of the things outlawed by the 1994 Brady Bill were aesthetic, cosmetic, and only applied to extremely specific models of rifles with ‘threatening sounding names’. To be totally honest, one could do far, far more damage with a standard deer hunting rifle than with an AK-47 purely because of the range one has using a deer rifle (such as a Remington 700) with a scope. Either way, are you aware that by even bringing that gun onto the property of an elementary or secondary school in the U.S. the shooters were already in violation of about 40 federal laws? What would one more law have done to prevent that? You are also aware that murder is illegal in all 50 states, correct? Do you think they would’ve changed their minds if shooting someone was even _more illegal_? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/20 "2003-04-14T23:32:37Z")
I guess I am of a very small minority of people that view ownership of these types of weapons as completely useless. What are the typical uses of such a weapon? Hunting? protection? Collecting? In the first case a hunting rifle should be fine. Protection? A Desert Eagle should be fine 😃 Please fill me in as to other possible uses. Assault weapons kill more then school children, and they kill more then once a year. What effect would banning these weapons have in regards to the daily lives of the people that own them? I ask this because I’m sure I’ll get people saying we should ban cars, knives, and other things that can be used to kill people. Just some thoughts. I guess it was stupid to open this in the pit, as I would have appreciated some honest debate on the matter. I think I came out of the gate wrong. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735.md?page=2)