# Another school shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 14, 2003, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735 "2003-04-14T21:34:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/81 "2003-04-16T01:21:28Z")
Didn’t the NRA hold rallys in Denver and Flint, MI just weeks after each area had a school shooting? Assholes. (Heston and the other decision makers I mean, not everyone in the organization.) ---
**Author:** ![Riboflavin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Riboflavin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riboflavin)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/82 "2003-04-16T01:33:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ratty \* > And though it will likely get me flamed, I do have to ask sort of the same question **WorldEater** did: are guns really all that necessary in normal civilian life? I’ll tell you what, explain to me how anything you do that other people have banned or restricted is really all that necessary in normal civilian life. In particular, how is homosexual sexual activity really all that necessary in normall civilian life? If it’s your position that “if I don’t like it, and its not neccesary, we should ban it” then it’s only fair to apply the same standards to other things. Especially when you haven’t offered one iota of evidence that private gun ownership causes any problems whatsoever, much less that it does more harm than good. I think this is a big part of the whole ‘gun ownership’ debate. If we personally would not do something, no matter what it is, from eating peas to worshipping a Goddess to making love, we feel that no one else should do it either. And it’s sad, really, beyond the anger and the rage that such behavior causes, it’s sad that a species like ours can’t even live with itself. So, the real question is whether you really believe that the “tolerance” you espouse applies to everyone, or only to people who do stuff that you like. ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/83 "2003-04-16T01:41:47Z")
Riboflavin, two gay guys gettin’ it on cannot make my head splatter. Apples and oranges. And your last paragraph is just non-sense. I don’t believe in god, but I wouldn’t have religion outlawed. I’m a straight white male, but I’m still pro-civil rights. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/84 "2003-04-16T02:02:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qwertyasdfg \* > \*\*Didn’t the NRA hold rallys in Denver and Flint, MI just weeks after each area had a school shooting? Assholes. (Heston and the other decision makers I mean, not everyone in the organization.) \*\* No, in fact, they didn’t. They’d booked Denver something like two years prior to Columbine to have a yearly meeting and IIRC, either cancelled the Denver gathering all together, or turned it down to simply a meeting of the executives. So, you gonna take back the “assholes” comment, in light of the facts? Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/85 "2003-04-16T02:09:34Z")
No, since I’ve seen footage of the rallies and believe me, it wasn’t “executives” only (unless the term executive is used very liberally in the NRA.) As for 2 years in advanced… so? It’s still a dick thing to do, inconvenient or not. “IIRC” doesn’t count as facts. ---
**Author:** ![Kalashnikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kalashnikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalashnikov)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/86 "2003-04-16T02:15:53Z")
The NRA convention in Denver was their national conventioin, planned at least a year ahead of time. They did cut out many activities, but IIRC they are required to meet to elect officers and such. The clip of Heston you’ve seen happened 8 months after the murder. Bush, Gore, and Michael Moore had all been gathering votes or holding rallies in the area. [http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth\_About\_Bowling.html](http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html) ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/87 "2003-04-16T02:46:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qwertyasdfg \* > \*\* > As for 2 years in advanced… so? It’s still a dick thing to do, inconvenient or not. > \*\* A) You listen to Michael Moore a lot, don’tcha? B) I live about 8 miles from Columbine. I would have happily gone to the convention, had the the convention occurred since there was no connection between the NRA and the Columbine murders. In any case, there were no rallies. Period. Of any sort. C) If it had occurred, it would not have been a “dick” thing to do. Frankly, I was (and am) pretty disgusted with Heston et al for wimping out to the gun-grabber’s hysteria. They should have gone ahead with the convention and said “Fuck you” to Handgun Control Internation and their ilk who did their best to capitalize on the murders. Or do you demand that everyone hide their car and not drive when there’s a massive traffic accident with multiple fatalities. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/88 "2003-04-16T03:01:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qwertyasdfg \* > \*\*No, since I’ve seen footage of the rallies and believe me, it wasn’t “executives” only (unless the term executive is used very liberally in the NRA.) > > As for 2 years in advanced… so? It’s still a dick thing to do, inconvenient or not. > > “IIRC” doesn’t count as facts. \*\* I bet, if the NRA did cancel, then you would now be saying “See? They accept guilt for what happened, and cancelled.” What could they have done? ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Phoenix\_Dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phoenix_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/89 "2003-04-16T03:13:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qwertyasdfg \* > **As for 2 years in advanced… so? It’s still a dick thing to do, inconvenient or not.** A “dick thing to do?” That’s kinda simple-minded, don’t you think? If there was a 50-car pileup in a city, would it be a “dick thing to do” if a car-racing organization held its national gathering there a week later, though toned down, like it had planned for a whole year? Or maybe if NASCAR held the race a few days later, like it had for the last two years? Funny that it’s a “dick thing to do” to hold a planned convention, in a heavily toned-down fashion, than it is for all the anti-gun people to swarm into the city using the deaths to promote their politics. (On preview:) Note also that the part of the Denver that _did_ happen, legally _had_ to be held then and there, because they had no time to notify all 3-million some members of the change of location or time. A “dick thing to do” to who, again? ---
**Author:** ![gorillaboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dc4da7/32.png) [@gorillaboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gorillaboy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/90 "2003-04-16T03:43:21Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by World Eater \* \*\* I think law officers should have firearms, I don’t think citizens should. YMMV \*\* Um, I thought you only wanted the government to confiscate my semi-automatic firearms…now you want them to take **all** of them?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Riboflavin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Riboflavin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riboflavin)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/91 "2003-04-16T04:02:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qwertyasdfg \* > As for 2 years in advanced… so? It’s still a dick thing to do, inconvenient or not. ’ How, exactly, is it a dick thing for an organization to continue with their pre-existing plans? The Million Mom march didn’t postpone their march on DC despite the fact that there was a recent murder attributable to victim disamament; was that a dick thing to do? ---
**Author:** ![Riboflavin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Riboflavin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riboflavin)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/92 "2003-04-16T04:03:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qwertyasdfg \* > Riboflavin, two gay guys gettin’ it on cannot make my head splatter. Apples and oranges. Me owning a gun cannot make your head splatter. Apples and apples; you and the whole rest of the anti-gun crowd have, despite multiple runs in GD, yet to provide a shred of evidence backing your hoplophobia. “Ohhh, guns scare me” is not evidence, and you might want to read the plethora of threads in GD where Brady Bunch myths have been debunked over and over. If you’re just going to consider baseless hoplophobic fears as a basis for your laws, then it’s still apples to apples because I can use homophobic fears with the same basis in reality to justify banning homosexual conduct; we all know that “gays are child molesters” and “homosexual sex spreads AIDS” and all of the other deaths and horrible crimes that can be pinned on legalized homsexuality. > [@](#): > > And your last paragraph is just non-sense. I don’t believe in god, but I wouldn’t have religion outlawed. I’m a straight white male, but I’m still pro-civil rights. Including the sort of rights mentioned in the second amendment, or do you just pick and choose which civil rights you are ‘pro’? And the last paragraph makes perfect sense, when one considers that it is almost a direct quote of what Ratty has said in the past on ‘tolerance’. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/93 "2003-04-16T05:13:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ratty \* > I guess what I mean to say is that guns seem to have fewer non-violent uses than many other weapons, which seems to make them more dangerous and threatening. Sorry can’t let this one go. Bow and arrow, oh yeah, those were made for target practice :rolleyes:… Crossbows? let me guess they got tired of holding a drawn bow at all those archery contests. What do you do with a Katana when you’re not duelling the neighboring damiyo…chop firewood? Isn’t it supposed to be “innappropriate” to draw one from its sheath without drawing blood? Longsword? Just saw Emiril Legasse slicing flank steak with one tonight. Flails and morning stars, tied for the absolute worst framing hammers ever made. I use my switchblade for putting mustard on my burger all the time. Tasers, when the microwave just isn’t quick enough. Pepper spray, when you are fresh out of habeneros for your chili. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/94 "2003-04-16T08:24:37Z")
2 things: 1- I just wanted to thank the posters that took the time and energy to post factual, sense based things in this thread, both pro- and anti- in stance. It’s discussion like this that will hopefully make the difference in the long run. 2- Just out of curiousity, has anyone here had their mind changed? ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/95 "2003-04-16T09:26:43Z")
Yes, but not on this particular subject. ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/96 "2003-04-16T12:21:00Z")
Apparently it was [payback time](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/South/04/15/school.shooting.ap/index.html). ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/97 "2003-04-16T12:43:59Z")
Oh, and as for “spin”, here’s what the [Brady Bunch](http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/alerts/reader/0,2061,562726,00.html) is saying now. Please note the number of times “Assault Weapon” is used. Say a lie enough and soon it becomes truth… ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/98 "2003-04-16T13:20:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Doc Nickel, I am going to have to put you in the upper echelon of erudite pro-gun posters, along with Uncle Beer and ExTank. Your arguments have summed up a large number of pro-gun sentiments without hyperbole nor rancor. Bravo! While we’re handing out accolades, I’d like to give one to **World Eater** , too. He’s certainly admitted what he doesn’t know, how that has affected his judgment and appears to be genuinely interested in, and respectful of, the views and rationale of his opponents, along with sowing a willingness to learn and then re-evaluate his opinions. Well done; that’s what we’re all about here. A most unlikely Pit thread this has become. ---
**Author:** ![Mort\_Furd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mort\_Furd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mort_Furd)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/99 "2003-04-16T13:35:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > I think law officers should have firearms, I don’t think citizens should. YMMV Hmmm. Having known a few of the less sterling policeman out there (including some of the security police in the US Air Force,) I’d be more inclined to not let police have guns. It scared me sometimes to see these guys carrying a weapon after seeing what kind of assholes, dipshits, and dumb fucks they are in their off time. Not to be down on all police officers. I’m just mentioning that not all police offícers are all that trustworthy. Besides, as far as I know a police officer must be a citizen. Forbidding a citizen to have a gun sort of implies that a police officer can’t have one, either. Nitpick, nitpick. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735/100 "2003-04-16T14:12:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mort Furd \* > \*\*Besides, as far as I know a police officer must be a citizen. Forbidding a citizen to have a gun sort of implies that a police officer can’t have one, either. Nitpick, nitpick. \*\* I think it was implied that I meant a citizen who is also a law officer and a citizen who is not a law officer. 😉 Thanks for the kind words **Unclebeer** , this thread has been very educational. I don’t want to appear like I’m abandoning the thread, as I see a few responses that I haven’t answered, but to be honest my positions have changed. Once I figure them out, I’ll be in a better position to defend them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-school-shooting/168735.md?page=6)