# Another size of the universe question **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 22, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713 "2003-05-22T02:09:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/1 "2003-05-22T02:09:48Z")
I didn’t put this in GQ cos I don’t know if it can be definitely answered. Is it possible that the universe is waaayyyyy bigger and older than we think? IIRC, the most distant objects we’ve seen are about 15 billion light years away. Who’s to say that, if you were to stand on the surface of a planet in one of those distant galaxies that the universe wouldn’t go on another 15 billion light years? Opinions? Speculations? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/2 "2003-05-22T02:19:11Z")
According to some theoretical cosmologists, no matter where in the universe you are, the farthest obejcts obeservable are some 15 billion light-years away. In other words, the universe has no center and no edge. Imagine standing on the surface of a ball. The universe _is_ the surface of the ball, and nothing else exists. The fathest point from you ist he opposite side of the ball, and no matter where you are, that distance is always the same. ---
**Author:** ![Zunite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/51bf81/32.png) [@Zunite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zunite)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/3 "2003-05-22T02:21:13Z")
what’s inside the ball? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/4 "2003-05-22T02:25:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zunite \* > \*\*what’s inside the ball? \*\* Nothing. The inside of the ball doesn’t exist and the space around the ball doesn’t exist. That’s the point, the _surface_ of the ball is the entire universe. ---
**Author:** ![Zunite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/51bf81/32.png) [@Zunite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zunite)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/5 "2003-05-22T02:31:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*Nothing. The inside of the ball doesn’t exist and the space around the ball doesn’t exist. That’s the point, the _surface_ of the ball is the entire universe. \*\* Nah. There has to be something there. Having nothing there is no fun. How about other universes, that at least sounds cooler. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/6 "2003-05-22T02:34:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zunite \* > \*\*what’s inside the ball? \*\* A creamy nougat center? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/7 "2003-05-22T02:44:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zunite \* > \*\*Nah. There has to be something there. Having nothing there is no fun. How about other universes, that at least sounds cooler. \*\* Cosmology isn’t always fun, but it’s always weird. I’m not suggesting the universe _is_ ball-shaped. It’s only an example to illustrate the way one can look at it; that is, that there is no center and from any viewpoint in it, the universe looks identical. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/8 "2003-05-22T02:52:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Cosmology isn’t always fun, but it’s always weird. I’m not suggesting the universe is ball-shaped. The surface-of-the-balloon/ball analogy seems to be pretty popular, and it’s apt from what I understand. To avoid questions like Zunite’s, writers who use it always add “This isn’t literally true, and don’t try to picture it because your head will explode.” In so many words. ---
**Author:** ![Zunite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/51bf81/32.png) [@Zunite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zunite)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/9 "2003-05-22T02:57:29Z")
My head didn’t explode… came close, but not quite. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/10 "2003-05-22T04:11:58Z")
It’s old enough to know what’s right but young enough not to choose it. [thank you Rush] ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/11 "2003-05-22T04:15:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > \*\*It’s old enough to know what’s right but young enough not to choose it. > > [thank you Rush] \*\* It’s also big enough to beat the crap out of you for saying that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/12 "2003-05-22T13:35:34Z")
:eek: 😉 ---
**Author:** ![UnwrittenNocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6de8d8/32.png) [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/13 "2003-05-22T13:43:35Z")
The whole surface of the ball thing is great. Thing is, I need a different analogy. I have been trying unsuccessfully to explain this to MsUnwrittenNocturne for a while. She says that it makes her head explode ☹ Probably because she is having difficulty \not\ envisaging the inside of the ball, and the outside. And the math is way to tough ---
**Author:** ![Zunite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/51bf81/32.png) [@Zunite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zunite)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/14 "2003-05-22T13:54:20Z")
I always liked the thought of the universe being shaped like a donut. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/15 "2003-05-22T14:04:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UnwrittenNocturne \* > \*\*The whole surface of the ball thing is great. Thing is, I need a different analogy. I have been trying unsuccessfully to explain this to MsUnwrittenNocturne for a while. She says that it makes her head explode ☹ > Probably because she is having difficulty \not\ envisaging the inside of the ball, and the outside. And the math is way to tough \*\* OK, first get **MsUnwrittenNocturne** a good, stiff drink. Ready? Good. Alright, well instead of the surface of a ball, think of it as a videogame screen, where the characters can “wrap around” when they leave the edge of the screen and appear on the oppsite side. It’s topolgically identical to the ball-surface analogy, but a bit easier to visualize. Again, for purposes of this analogy, nothing else but the two-dimensional surface of the screen exists. In our universe, of course, we have three dimensions, but trying to visualize this including that third dimension is a bit much for our primitive brains, but if you can accept the two-dimensional analogy, you’ll at least have a rough handle on the concept. ---
**Author:** ![Zunite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/51bf81/32.png) [@Zunite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zunite)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/16 "2003-05-22T14:29:06Z")
If you take the videogame screen analogy, you have a plane. A treadmill sorta plane, but still a plane, what happened to the sphere? Also where did that 3rd dimension go? Did some higher power eat it? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/17 "2003-05-22T14:42:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zunite \* > \*\*If you take the videogame screen analogy, you have a plane. A treadmill sorta plane, but still a plane, what happened to the sphere? Also where did that 3rd dimension go? Did some higher power eat it? \*\* The third dimension didn’t go anywhere, it’s being ignored for the sake of simplicity. It’s not present in the sphere analogy, either (recall that nothing exists but the surface itself, which is a two-dimensional surface curved in the third dimension, whereas real space is three-dimensional, curved through a fourth dimension). Think of the way in which cartographers represent the spheroid Earth on flat map projection, and you’ll have the general idea. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/18 "2003-05-22T14:55:53Z")
Ok, here’s what you do: You get a tub, a bathtub, or a large sink, white enamel or stainless steel…and you fill it with black sand. Then, you pull the plug. And you film it. But… you put the film in _backwards_. Then, when you watch it, it’s in reverse. It looks like the tub is being filled up from the drain. Doesn’t add anything to _this_ discussion, but it’s an awful lot of fun to do. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/19 "2003-05-22T15:14:14Z")
Yes, I read _The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy_ books too. Douglas Adams’ ghost will smack you upside the head for not attributing the quote. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713/20 "2003-05-22T15:18:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zunite \* > \*\*Nah. There has to be something there. Having nothing there is no fun. How about other universes, that at least sounds cooler. \*\* And hence, the “Hollow Universe” theory was born… 😃 Zev Steinhardt [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-size-of-the-universe-question/176713.md?page=2)