# Another sovereign citizen embarasses self in public, offers to stop police chase for $300,000 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 12, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826 "2012-12-12T14:34:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/41 "2012-12-14T14:28:04Z")
As I said, not so funny to deal with professionally. Sometimes deadly. When you are certain the law does not apply to you, you can do anything you want. [Louisiana Police Shooting 2012 - Sovereign Citizens Cop Killing](http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/louisiana-police-shooting-11911108) > **[Security Management | A Publication of ASIS International](https://www.asisonline.org/security-management-magazine/latest-news/sm-homepage/)** [http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/september-2011/sovereign-citizens](http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/september-2011/sovereign-citizens) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/42 "2012-12-14T15:08:38Z")
If they are “exempt” from the law, then we ought to be able to shoot them at will. Although that might mean a small fine for “discharging a firearm within the city limits” or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/43 "2012-12-14T16:05:42Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > We really need to find some worthless hunk of land to dump all these “sovereigns” in. North Dakota, maybe. Wall it off and let them suffer the logical conclusion to their delusions. I thought Somalia was the place for this. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/44 "2012-12-14T20:04:35Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > They don’t do too well here in the Great White: _Meads v. Meads_, 2012 ABQB 571 (CanLII), \<[http://canlii.ca/t/fsvjq](http://canlii.ca/t/fsvjq)\>. I’ve read this opinion before. It’s pure comedy gold. These people are batshit crazy, the lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/45 "2012-12-14T20:15:13Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > No need for a war. She has Diplomatic Immunity. No, you don’t get Diplomatic Immunity just by claiming it. You have to be recognized as a diplomat by the host country. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/46 "2012-12-14T21:12:04Z")
I love this one, from that doc; “You cannot identify one instance where a court has rolled over and behaved as told. Not one. Your spells, when cast, fail.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/47 "2012-12-14T21:26:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, you don’t get Diplomatic Immunity just by claiming it. You have to be recognized as a diplomat by the host country. But if you are your own sovereign nation and your nation travels where you do, it’s easy to get such recognition. From yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/48 "2012-12-14T21:46:17Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > 😃 Plus he had a ponytail. Nothin but douche! > > Even when I was a cop, if I saw someone smoking a joint at home, or sitting under a tree in the park, I wouldn’t say anything. There’s worse things in the world. > > However, when you get behind the wheel around me, your head better be pretty fucking clear. I don’t need Cheech bangin into my ride, yo!😉 The real question here is what kind of dumbass takes a pound of weed in his car to court? Lets think about this for one second. What do you find at court? Besides Judges, Defendants, Lawyers? Cops maybe? You think that is the place to bring your felony amount of weed? To court? Teh stoopit **Capt** ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/49 "2012-12-14T21:55:43Z")
“Sovereign citizen” should always be used with quotation marks, or a qualifier like “so-called.” I know that’s a picky thing to say, but I notice a lot of these articles AREN’T qualifying the term, which kind of lends it legitimacy as a real term of art. It’s not. There is no such thing as a “sovereign citizen” and the term should not be used as if there is. So far they’re mostly an irritation, but this shit could become a serious problem. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/50 "2012-12-14T22:11:00Z")
From the link provided above; “In the absence of a better moniker, I have collectively labelled them as Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Argument litigants [“ **OPCA litigants** ”], to functionally define them collectively for what they literally are. These persons employ a collection of techniques and arguments promoted and sold by ‘gurus’ (as hereafter defined) to disrupt court operations and to attempt to frustrate the legal rights of governments, corporations, and individuals.” Kinda unwieldy on a conversational level, but that’s essentially what they are. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/51 "2012-12-14T22:11:46Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I love this one, from that doc; > > “You cannot identify one instance where a court has rolled over and behaved as told. Not one. Your spells, when cast, fail.” You may well wonder if this person has been reading too much Harry Potter fan fiction. There is a certain disconnect to reality that is pervasive in this paradigm. “Sovereign Citizen”, indeed. Why not just declare yourself “Center of the Universe” and have done with it? > [@](#): > > No man is an island, > Entire of itself. – John Donne ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/52 "2012-12-14T22:13:41Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > You may well wonder if this person has been reading too much Harry Potter fan fiction. There is a certain disconnect to reality that is pervasive in this paradigm. I might pay money to watch these people try to get out of a traffic stop by casting a spell on the cops. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/53 "2012-12-14T22:46:27Z")
It’s easy to laugh at them when they do and say stupid stuff, but it is dangerous because they really believe what they say. When they look to the Declaration of Independence and the tradition of the American Revolution, and the justifications given for the right of revolution, then they have adequate grounds in their minds to resist the believed illegal usurpation of power by the so-called false government. So just how far are they willing to take their beliefs? If it is just continuing to cite bizarre phrases and misciting legislation in order to try to finagle some special password that gets them out of the situation, that is frustratingly comical. But then they turn to more active resistance, including hostile acts with interference and, as cited above, violence including firearms. Law enforcement officers need to be trained to be aware of the type and the danger they pose. The tactics of calling for other “sovereign citizen” backup to obstruct traffic stops and the potential for armed resistance speaks to the need for law enforcement to be prepared with their own backup. If there are indications of phone calls, they should definitely call their own backup, and be prepared to arrest the lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/54 "2012-12-14T23:08:54Z")
“No man is an island, but I’ve met a few peninsulas in my day.” – Ihave N. O’Idea ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/55 "2012-12-14T23:39:22Z")
I am loving that Response above, but I have to ask - I’m at para 184, and he’s talking about how there’s a thing called a “pot church” that claims that pot is integral to Christianity, and is specifically called for and sanctioned by the KJV Bible. Is this just a Canadian version of Rastafarianism, is this a one-shot loony proposal, or is this really a larger thing? Obviously googling “pot churches” isn’t getting me much of anywhere useful. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/56 "2012-12-15T00:01:30Z")
Every once in a while someone asserts that pot is an integral part of his religion, and therefore protected from prosecution under our constitutional freedom of religion. Then the person gets convicted and goes on to lose again on appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/57 "2012-12-15T00:28:45Z")
From the Response linked above: > [@](#): > > Naturally, that did not work. As Justice Moir observed in R. v. McCormick, 2012 NSSC 288 (CanLII), 2012 NSSC 288 at para. 32: “[t]his teaching is not only wrong in the sense that it is false. It is wrongful. That is, it is full of wrong.” I want to send this Judge a gift basket. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/58 "2012-12-15T00:32:40Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Every once in a while someone asserts that pot is an integral part of his religion, and therefore protected from prosecution under our constitutional freedom of religion. Then the person gets convicted and goes on to lose again on appeal. And the stock answer from any (US)[Canadian] judge these days should be; “Then why haven’t you moved to (California, Washington, Colorado)[Vancouver]?” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/59 "2012-12-15T20:53:23Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > And the stock answer from any (US)[Canadian] judge these days should be; > > “Then why haven’t you moved to (California, Washington, Colorado)[Vancouver]?” Well, because they’re high. ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826/60 "2012-12-17T04:04:33Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > From the link provided above; > > "In the absence of a better moniker, I have collectively labelled them as Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Argument litigants [“ **OPCA litigants** ”] Appropriate, but I’m loving “vexatious litigant.” 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sovereign-citizen-embarasses-self-in-public-offers-to-stop-police-chase-for-300-000/643826.md?page=4)