# Another Star Trek question: What about the Organians? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 4, 2000, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955 "2000-12-04T16:24:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/1 "2000-12-04T16:24:49Z")
OK, I haven’t seen this episode in a long time, but here’s what bits I remember: In one of TOS episodes, the Federation and the Klingons are told by a godlike race called the Organians that they would have to behave themselves and not fight. If they did, there would be severe penalties. Also, the Organians would help to determine which side would be permitted to “have” whatever world in their sphere of influence. Apparently the Organian Treaty didn’t last, because it wasn’t long before they were just a-feudin’ like always. Is this a case of a writer or producer saying, “Aw, that didn’t work. We’ll just pretend that episode didn’t happen. We need Klingons.” ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/2 "2000-12-04T17:26:24Z")
My take on this is that when the Federation and the Klingons signed their peace treaty, the Organians decided that the two groups had learned to play well together and nullified the Neutral Zone mojo. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/3 "2000-12-04T17:43:12Z")
Continuity wasn’t exactly the top priority of TOS, but if you remember "The Trouble With Tribbles’ you’ll recall that the Origanian peace treaty was mentioned with the Kingons and the Federation both trying to develop the planet in question – the Origanians would judge which side had done the better job of development. Spock noted that the Klingons were extremely efficient in developing other planets. ---
**Author:** ![G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c67d28/32.png) [@G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.B.H.Hornswoggler)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/4 "2000-12-04T17:43:57Z")
That happened with a **lot** of “Classic” Trek plots. There were more gods, omniponent alien races and plain 'ol butt-heads than you could shake a stick at. My WAG is that, when it came time to re-launch the franchise for the movies and TNG, everyone thought, “Let’s just ignore all those super-beings, and maybe everyone will forget they ever existed.” Think about it. You’ve got a galaxy that includes the god Apollo, the Squire of Gothos and the Organians, so why do you need Jim “Hello! alien wench” Kirk to save it? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/5 "2000-12-04T17:44:53Z")
My theory: The Organians caught one of those viruses that rewrite your DNA. (These seem to be about as common as catching a cold in the Star Trek universe.) The virus didn’t elimiate their godlike powers, but it stripped away all traces of emotional maturity from the poor Organians, turning them into… the Q Continuum! Now, instead of helping bring about peace, they delight in causing mischief and generally being arrogant pricks. ---
**Author:** ![Inky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7feea3/32.png) [@Inky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inky_1)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/6 "2000-12-04T19:06:35Z")
Forgive me, but it will be bugging me all day if I don’t ask. “TOS”? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/7 "2000-12-04T19:20:06Z")
I am not a Trekkie, Inky, but I think TOS stands for The Original Series. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/8 "2000-12-04T19:22:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Inky- \* > \*\*Forgive me, but it will be bugging me all day if I don’t ask. > > “TOS”? \*\* “The Original Series” For reference: ST:TOS = Star Trek: The Original Series (a retronym) ST:TNG = Star Trek: The Next Generation ST:DS9 = Star Trek: Deep Space Nine ST:VOY = Star Trek: Voyager The parts of the above abbreviations on the right side of the colon can also be used alone, e.g. “TOS”, “TNG”, “DS9”, “VOY” Crawling back to geekdom… ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/9 "2000-12-04T19:25:07Z")
The Original Series I recall a comic book in which the Organians end up going head to head with the rock creature that conjured up Lincoln, Surak, et alia to conclude whether good or evil is inherently better (I mercifully forget the name of that quite forgettable episode, perhaps it was “The Savage Curtain”?). The rock creature is upset with the Organians for keeping the Federation and the Klingons from warring, since it keeps him from finding out which is the better race. They end up in a psionic battle which results in both the rock creatures and the Organians being blasted into the next life, leaving the Klingons and the Federation able to resume their ‘discussions’ over differences of opinion. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/10 "2000-12-04T19:26:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayjay \* > \*\* > ST:DS9 = Star Trek: Deep Space Nine > \*\* I hate V-code… Obviously this is supposed to be ST: DS9. “Preview, preview, preview!” ---
**Author:** ![Kyberneticist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kyberneticist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyberneticist)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/11 "2000-12-04T19:30:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diceman \* > \*\*My theory: > > The Organians caught one of those viruses that rewrite your DNA. (These seem to be about as common as catching a cold in the Star Trek universe.) The virus didn’t elimiate their godlike powers, but it stripped away all traces of emotional maturity from the poor Organians, turning them into… the Q Continuum! > > Now, instead of helping bring about peace, they delight in causing mischief and generally being arrogant pricks. \*\* Actually, some continuity problems could be solved if the Squire of Gothos and Q were immature Organians. In one episode Q got punished by the Continuum for his practical jokes. Granted, the only other member of the continuum he chats with in that episode seems just as immature… maybe an Organian schoolmate? Dunno about Apollo, he seems a lot weaker then Q - his powers depending on human belief. Same with those beings that preyed on human fears (the ones that turned the Enterprise into a paperweight). ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/12 "2000-12-04T22:25:05Z")
I think there was some mention of the Organians, or at least the Organian Peace Treaty, as late as _Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan_. During that opening scene with the _Kobayashi Maru_ training simulation, that annoying computer voice says something along the lines of “WARNING: We are entering the Neutral Zone. WARNING: The Organian Treaty of Stardate 3.14159 yadda yadda yadda” before they tell it to shut its yap. As for Apollo, I think he pretty much died at the end of that episode (or do whatever it is “gods” do when their temples are blown away with phasers and they’re told they’re no longer needed). So how come the Organians never dropped in to tell, say, the Borg to play nice? Or intervene in that nasty battle royal war in the last few seasons of DS9? As has already been pointed out, continuity has never been a big strong point of _Star Trek_. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/13 "2000-12-04T22:50:13Z")
Actually, thinking back over the movies and TV series, I can’t recall the Klingons and the Federation ever acting as avowed enemies after “Errand Of Mercy”. Not to say that they enjoyed friendly relations founded on a basis of mutual admiration and respect, but they weren’t at war. So maybe we don’t have such a major discontinuity problem here. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/14 "2000-12-04T23:26:47Z")
Another thing–in “Errand of Mercy”, the Feds and the Klingons had _apparently_ actually stumbled on the homeworld of the Organians, which they were about to go to war over because of its strategic position or somesuch. Assuming that that wasn’t just some sort of con job by the advanced superbeings so they could intervene and save us from ourselves, it might explain why they haven’t been poking their now-nonexistant noses into everyone’s business since–so long as everyone is careful to respect the neutrality of the particular rockball the Organians originally crawled out of the primordial ooze on (presumably they have some sentimental attachment to it) they’re happy. Maybe the Federation could adopt a strategy of luring all its deadly enemies into attacking that one seemingly primitive, bucolic planet–send out “coded” messages (in some really simple-minded code like “A=Z, B=Y, etc.”) along the lines of “My God, don’t let the Borg assimilate Organia, or all is lost!” ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/15 "2000-12-04T23:48:00Z")
Beyond “Q” the ascendant superbeings in the STNG universe were who? 1: “Q” 2: The sorrowful “god” that made the little garden on the devastated planet after he killed a whole race of beings. 3: The persecuted beings that were turning into creatures of pure energy. 4: The giant head being that brought the Enterprise to them for study by accelerating Mr. Barkely’s intelligence. 5: The nebula being that trapped the enterprise inside himself and studied them. 6: The friend of Wesley being that could accelerate the Enterprise engines to go orders of magnitude faster. BTW what the hell was Whoopi Goldberg’s race (no jokes). She was aware of doings in the continuum of advanced races but her people still got destroyed by the Borg. What/who else? ---
**Author:** ![GKittridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e274bd/32.png) [@GKittridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GKittridge)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/16 "2000-12-04T23:50:52Z")
I can think of two episodes after _Errand of Mercy_ which had the Federation and the Klingons at war. The first was the one (I can’t remember titles anymore) where they find these nice peaceful people who are being attacked by the bad guys from the other side of the hill with weapons being supplied by the Klingons, so they give these people the same weapons, and Kirk gets a speech saying how this is the right thing to do, just like it was with the brush wars on Earth in the 20th century in a not-well disguised polemic supporting the war in Viet Nam. The second had the Klingons boarding the Enterprise and the crew fighting each other with swords, but no one dies and there are always the same number of Federation types and Klingongs with equal weapons because some alien entity thrives on the warfare between these two beings in a not-well disguised polemic opposing the war in Viet Nam. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/17 "2000-12-05T00:47:06Z")
No one considers the novels as canon, but the book “Q Squared” says that Trelane, the Squire of Gothos, was in fact a young Q when the original crew encountered him. Since they never heard a name for his race, this doesn’t cause any continuity problems. The book is by Peter David, who I believe wrote many TNG episodes. I haven’t read the book, so I don’t know if there’s anything about the Organians in it. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/18 "2000-12-05T01:22:02Z")
Guinan is an El Aurian, the same as Dr. Soran in _Generations_ and the ne’er-do-well in DS9’s “Rivals”. There’s very little information about them, other than that they’re long-lived, their homeworld was assimilated by the Borg, and Guinan, at least, has some mysterious mental awareness. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/19 "2000-12-05T01:40:59Z")
Don’t forget the Prophets, either. In some ways, at least, they’re doubtless more powerful than the Q, who are still somewhat limited by time. ---
**Author:** ![lolagranola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ea5d25/32.png) [@lolagranola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lolagranola)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955/20 "2000-12-05T02:22:26Z")
Darn, Saltire, you beat me to it. Nope, there wasn’t anything about the Organians in it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-trek-question-what-about-the-organians/43955.md?page=2)