*Otto: Tuvok started out as a LT and was promoted in the course of the show. I’m not a big pip-watcher so I don’t know if the pips have been inconsistent since the promotion.
Which leads me to wonder, with a 75 year mission, assuming survival of various crew members, is everyone going to end up as a captain eventually? (Yes I know next season is the last so presumably they’ll get home in the season finale but the crew doesn’t know that does it?)*
I was pretty sure he’s always been a LCDR. It’s strange that he’s 100 years old, but still only a LCDR (or LT up to when Voyager was lost).
I wonder if Janeway can self-promote herself to Admiral to make room for Captain Naomi Wildman. And isn’t everyone basically conscripted? They can’t resign their commision and then say, “I’ll just be in my quarters for the next few decades.” They all gotta do something.
And why did all the Maquis get StarFleet uniforms and acting ranks, but Seven of Nine has to prance around in a skin-tight cat suit and high heels (which would be most inefficient, true?). (Yes, I know the real reason: Jeri Ryan is babe-a-licious!!)
Oh, and my previous nit about Colm Meaney. In the first season, he was only in two episodes as “conn officer” and “first security officer”. In the second season, IMDB lists him as Transporter Chief O’Brien. But it wasn’t until the 4th season that they really made a point of him being an enlisted crewman.
He left Starfleet for a while, and has also taught at the Academy. Unknown what rank he held when he left Starfleet the first time, and generally teaching positions aren’t a real fast track to promotion.
This season’s opener dealt with that a little. There were some crewmen off the rogue guy’s ship and one of them said something like “what are they gonna do, put us in the brig for the next 75 years?” I think that was touched on in the first season too, with an episode involving some former Maquis who were screw-ups. I didn’t watch most of the first through third seasons so my knowledge is sketchy.
hat bothers me about this situation is that Seven seems empowered to give orders. She also has her own set of security overrides and what-not, but no official rank. My take is that she’s de facto a “civilian specialist” who as a courtesy holds an honorary (but at this point undisclosed) rank. Totally unsupported by anything on the show, but it makes sense to me.
Well, there was that one Geordi episode with the holodeck engineer chick. And then Barclay had some interesting programs. My guess is you keep quiet about it and mop up afterwards.
AWB posted:
I don’t recall that. I know there are “crewmen” references, but the significance of whether that makes the enlisted or officers is blurred. The reference to “enlisted” used in that case of the med tech seems erroneous - I think he meant “signed up for Star Fleet”. My understanding was that all crew on the Star Fleet vessels were Star Fleet officers. Lowest rank ensign, except for the one Yeoman, which position was removed after the original series ended. There are mentions of other space agencies, like merchant marines (spacers?), and that would be the case of some references to enlisting. But originally I understood Roddenberry’s idea to be there were no non-officers. Of course it has all gone to pot, and I’ll handily accept the explanation that there were enlisted all along. And the academy? Maybe it’s just for officers?
As far as the O-Brien nit-picks, chalk it up to series discontinuities. The goobers couldn’t keep things straight.
Also, what is “AGT…”?
I have not payed close attention to Tuvok’s pips, but I do recall he got a promotion from Lt to LCDR. No word if they kept references to him consistent.
Regarding Chakotay, he was a Star Fleet officer who joined the Maquis, so he is officially an officer and Star Fleet Academy grad.
Otto, regarding rank ups, there is some room in the hierarchy for promotions, but how much is unclear. I suspect that they would either have to top load the officer corps with lots of commanders, or start putting freezes on ranks after the staff is fleshed out. I don’t know - it’s one of those “make it up as you go” things for the crew. They’re hoping to find short cuts and not take that long. Apparently they will get their hope.
As for non-SF maquis, conscripted civilians, etc, I don’t know. Neelix has gotten himself assigned “officer” positions even though he does not hold any rank. Yet he is a key advisor. ??? Everyone has to contribute, so they are all “conscripted” in the sense they are expected to do duties and obey all the rules and regulations, including following military protocol, even if they are civilians.
Seven of Nine is a mystery. She acts like an officer, giving orders and such, yet doesn’t get a uniform. She breaks rules and protocol and yet gets away with it without repercussions. Maybe Janeway’s a lezzie?
It sounds like there are staff advisory positions with limited authority by virtue of necessity. You get those by demonstrating a needed talent or skill or knowledge. Since the personnel pool is limited, need outranks official status.
[hijack] Remember the episode where they go onto the planet with the liquid metal beings that replace the crew members? Seven wears that bulky space suit, and still looks hot. [/hijack]
I recall Capt. Kirk was always talking about how he was responsible for 400 lives on his ship, but we only ever saw about 10 people on the whole ship ever actually do anything. I guess the other 390 were down in the engine room with Scotty shoveling coal.
He’s the diplomatic corps. When he and Kes joined the ship, Neelix’s selling point was that he had travelled extensively throughout the area and had good contacts and knowledge vital to Voayager making it through. There was an episode in which Neelix thought he was going to have to leave because they had reached the boundaries of the space he knew so he was no longer useful.
Just saw the episode that the Cardassians were introduced (man that headgear they were wearing was silly looking…) and when Data mentions that O’Brian served with the Starfleet Captain they’re tracking down, Data refers to him as ‘Chief O’Brian’, but when they show him O’Brian’s got an officer’s pips - 2, a Lieutennant, IIRC.
So ‘Chief’ apparently referred to his being Transporter Chief, rather than his rank, at that point.
Nice theory, but impossible. You can make the starting rank “ensign” instead of “spaceman”, but that just means that an ensign is no longer an officer. An officer is someone who can give orders; if you’re the lowest rank, to whom are you going to give orders? In order to run a ship (or any multi-person entity), you need a lot of peons actually doing the work-- shovelling coal down with Scotty, etc. Dang, I wish we could get some of the Navy folks on this thread… I’ll bet ChiefScott would have a thing or two to say about a fleet where everyone’s an officer!
im not navy, but former army, and lieutenants en masse among higher officers are still officers, but end up being the peons until there are enlisted, and as far as reality goes, most special forces units contain a majority of officers only because by the time they’re done with all their schools/training, they have achieved high rank. also, Warrant officers typically wear jump suits in any division of the armed forces, and are niether considered enlisted, nor officers directly, they are somewhere in between, considered specialists in their field, they are never really allowed to be given orders by any officer except their direct superior, yet they can order anyone else around if they must. CID is full of Warrant officers, its a tricky rank, and not common. I bring this up because seven seems to fill that role quite well, but she definitely fits that uniform better
Soulsling–
I’m not sure whether or not you’re agreeing with me there, but the situation you describe is a bit different. Yes, in the Armed Forces, if a lieutenant/ensign is the lowest ranking person present, he (or she) is a peon, but still an officer. The difference is, in that case, it’s still possible that an enlisted person will show up, and suddenly, the lieutenant has someone to boss around again. According to the Roddenbery quotes mentioned, there simply is no rank below ensign in Starfleet, so it’s not even a possibility that someone lower will show up. It seems kind of pointless to even retain the term “officer” if it’s synonymous with “any military personnel”.
mmmm… sounds like Roddenberry may have just assumed since in todays world, all those working in the cockpit of a plane, or on the bridge of a ship must be officers, that a starship, being of something higher and greater, deserved a full crew of officers, perhaps even if only for the retainment of tradition as the military is so fond of doing. the Old Guard, 101st Cavalry Horse Regiment…etc. all still around for tradition. or more closely related to ST, the fact that all members of the 82nd Airborne division wear the Airborne patch, and Maroon Beret even though they haven’t all earned their jump wings. Tradition is big in the military. So, i figure the starships are to consist of all officers, with the exception of some civilian specialists and warrant type officer in the mix. also, perhaps they consider the academy and its cadets to be the enlisted personnel. just a thought.
And isn’t everyone basically conscripted? They can’t resign their commision and then say, “I’ll just be in my quarters for the next few decades.” They all gotta do something.