# Another Star Wars thread? Darth Vader's arc **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 4, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-wars-thread-darth-vaders-arc/566301 "2011-01-04T02:30:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-wars-thread-darth-vaders-arc/566301/81 "2011-01-07T06:32:34Z")
Where did the whole Darth-as-title thing come from? In ANH, when Obi-Wan calls Vader “Darth” he’s clearly teasing him by using his first name as if they were old friends. (He couldn’t call him Anakin, obviously, since that would have given away the big reveal in ESB, even assuming Lucas had had that idea yet. and “Annie” would just have been silly!) The cadence when he or anyone else speaks about Darth Vader makes it sound to me like a first and last name, too, not a title and last name. (It’s a subtle difference, but people tend to emphasize the first name slightly more than the last name but the last name slightly more than the title in those pairs.) Besides, his title is “Lord.” That’s all anyone uses in a situation where a title would be expected. By the prequel, however, it had apparently been decided that _Darth_ is a title and “Lord” is just a translation. Some people even claim that it’s a contraction of “_Dar_k Lord of the Si_th_,” which is an even dumber idea than mitichlorians. Was this something Lucas came up with? Was it in any of the early novelizations? (I know it wasn’t in the novelization of ANH.) Or did it just come from the EU? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-wars-thread-darth-vaders-arc/566301/82 "2011-01-07T10:31:23Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Where did the whole Darth-as-title thing come from? In ANH, when Obi-Wan calls Vader “Darth” he’s clearly teasing him by using his first name as if they were old friends. (He couldn’t call him Anakin, obviously, since that would have given away the big reveal in ESB, even assuming Lucas had had that idea yet. and “Annie” would just have been silly!) The cadence when he or anyone else speaks about Darth Vader makes it sound to me like a first and last name, too, not a title and last name. (It’s a subtle difference, but people tend to emphasize the first name slightly more than the last name but the last name slightly more than the title in those pairs.) Besides, his title is “Lord.” That’s all anyone uses in a situation where a title would be expected. > > By the prequel, however, it had apparently been decided that _Darth_ is a title and “Lord” is just a translation. Some people even claim that it’s a contraction of “_Dar_k Lord of the Si_th_,” which is an even dumber idea than mitichlorians. > > Was this something Lucas came up with? Was it in any of the early novelizations? (I know it wasn’t in the novelization of ANH.) Or did it just come from the EU? Well, the whole Sith thing started as early as the Dark Empire novels back in the early 90s, but I don’t recall any usage or discussion of the title Darth until the prequels and their novelization. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-wars-thread-darth-vaders-arc/566301/83 "2011-01-07T15:38:07Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Obi-Wan and Luke go to the Death Star. Obi-Wan gets killed by Darth Vader. > > A master and an apprentice: “When I met you I was but the learner; now I am the master.” > But who is the apprentice, Darth? Leroy? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-wars-thread-darth-vaders-arc/566301/84 "2011-01-07T18:41:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m pretty sure that what **Zombie** is saying is that, while there are evil force users in the OT, the word “Sith” is never applied to them. It appears that he’s correct - although it looks like Lucas was calling Vader a “Sith Lord” in the stage directions to the first film, the term didn’t make it into the movies proper until the prequel trilogy. He’s identified as a “Sith Lord” as early as the film novelization, but there’s no detail about what the Sith are. From the scene introducing him: > [@](#): > > Two meters tall. Bipedal. Flowing black robes trailing from the figure and a face forever masked by a functional if bizarre black metal breath screen- a Dark Lord of the Sith was an awesome, threatening shape as it strode through the corridors of the rebel ship. > > Fear followed the footsteps of all the Dark Lords. The cloud of evil which clung tight around this particular one was intense enough to cause hardened Imperial troops to back away, menacing enough to set them muttering nervously among themselves. Once-resolute rebel crew members ceased resisting, broke and ran in panic at the sight of the black armor-armor which, though black as it was, was not nearly as dark as the thoughts drifting through the mind within ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-wars-thread-darth-vaders-arc/566301/85 "2011-01-07T19:14:12Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > He’s identified as a “Sith Lord” as early as the film novelization, but there’s no detail about what the Sith are. From the scene introducing him: > [@](#): > > Two meters tall. **Bipedal**. Flowing black robes trailing from the figure and a face forever masked by a functional if bizarre black metal breath screen- a Dark Lord of the Sith was an awesome, threatening shape as it strode through the corridors of the rebel ship. > > Fear followed the footsteps of all the Dark Lords. The cloud of evil which clung tight around this particular one was intense enough to cause hardened Imperial troops to back away, menacing enough to set them muttering nervously among themselves. Once-resolute rebel crew members ceased resisting, broke and ran in panic at the sight of the black armor-armor which, though black as it was, was not nearly as dark as the thoughts drifting through the mind within I think that’s the only mention of Vader’s sexuality in the whole of the Original Trilogy. P.S: That sample is quite an horrible hack job, I could barely finish reading it. Dark Lord sounds less cheesy for me than Sith, still, it is clear then that in the book Vader isnt THE Dark Lord, and that there seem to be many. I wonder where the "writer"got the idea. Not certain Lucas was as anal retentive about SW fiction as he came to be renowned for. Might also be something that was in the original script but was tossed away and “writer” guy, doing his job on his own, with the original script, maintained the concept. P.S.2: **Amazing** , where did you get that btw? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-wars-thread-darth-vaders-arc/566301/86 "2011-01-07T19:17:54Z")
Star Wars:The Adventures of Luke Skywalker (1976), by George Lucas, ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster. I have quote around here somewhere, but I just pulled the quote from Amazon. It was a novelization based on the screenplay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-star-wars-thread-darth-vaders-arc/566301.md?page=4)