# Another sweet military scandal: When is a Captain of a ship not a mill-rank Captain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498 "2013-06-20T19:12:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/1 "2013-06-20T19:12:20Z")
This time it’s stolen valor. However, what with all the other government malfeasance being discovered these days, the US Navy, to its credit, is being quite open about [Cap’n Crunch](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/06/20/193875243/hes-an-impostor-the-navy-says-about-capn-crunch), who after many years was discovered with false stripes. Is it correct to call the commander of any vessel “captain?” While aboard in the military service, as well as in civil? (We all do in civilian life, but I can see on some occasions it might be confusing\* or socially off, or, perhaps, important in liability issues. \*As in a cockpit of an airplane with a pilot requesting permission for take-off, receiving directions and acknowledging same, manned by Clarence Oveur, co-pilot named Roger, and Navigator named Victor. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/2 "2013-06-20T19:20:45Z")
Yes, the commanding officer of a U.S. Navy vessel is referred to as “captain,” whether or not that is his or her actual rank. Civilian commanding officers are usually referred to as either “captain” or even “skipper.” > **[Captain (naval)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_(naval))** > > Captain is the name most often given in English-speaking navies to the rank corresponding to command of the largest ships. The rank is equal to the army rank of colonel and air force rank of group captain. > Equivalent ranks worldwide include ship-of-the-line captain (e.g. France, Argentina, Spain), captain of sea and war (e.g. Brazil, Portugal), captain at sea (e.g. Germany, Netherlands) and "captain of the first rank" (Russia). > Any naval officer who commands a ship is addressed by naval custom ... > **[Sea captain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_(nautical))** > > A sea captain, ship's captain, captain, master, or shipmaster, is a high-grade licensed mariner who holds ultimate command and responsibility of a merchant vessel. The captain is responsible for the safe and efficient operation of the ship, including its seaworthiness, safety and security, cargo operations, navigation, crew management, and legal compliance, and for the persons and cargo on board. > The captain ensures that the ship complies with local and international laws and complies also with ... ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/3 "2013-06-20T19:28:22Z")
Also, Steve Rogers called himself Captain America, whereas he only had leftenant’s stripes on the sleeves of his jacket. Also, in the Inverness pantomime, the part of Puss in Boots was played by a native of New Guinea with a plate in her lip… ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/4 "2013-06-20T19:42:22Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Also, Steve Rogers called himself Captain America, whereas he only had leftenant’s stripes on the sleeves of his jacket. Captain America would never have leftenant’s stripes on his sleeves. If he had leftenant’s stripes, he would have been Captain United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/5 "2013-06-21T00:58:21Z")
Also, may we point out that from his outfit, Cap’n Crunch may date from before the USN or RN sleeve braid was standardized to the pattern we know and recognize. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/6 "2013-06-21T01:11:53Z")
Forget about his stripes. Cap’n Crunch, like most cartoon characters, has only three fingers and a thumb. If he can do with three fingers and be a human, I’m perfectly fine with him having three sleeve stripes and being a captain. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/7 "2013-06-21T01:12:48Z")
> [@](#): > > The Cap’n was unmasked on June 14 by a food blogger, who noticed the uniform he wears on cereal boxes had the stripes of a commander, not a captain. That is: **A captain has four stripes on his sleeve, while a commander has three.** I’ll note that people in the Navy have _four_ fingers plus a thumb, while our Cap’n has three. So I think he has the correct number of stripes for who he is. Quit repressing him. On preview: Shakes four-fingered fist at **OldGuy** ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/8 "2013-06-21T01:15:26Z")
I wonder what rank Smedley the Elephant pretended to have? And how will the GOP spin this? Is this Mr. Obama’s fault? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/9 "2013-06-21T01:31:31Z")
The OP is mistaken in thinking that Cap’n Crunch is claiming he holds the rank of Captain. In reality, Horatio Magellan Crunch is the Capetian - hereditary head of the Capet dynasty and claimant to the Kingdom of France. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/10 "2013-06-21T01:50:15Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > Captain America would never have leftenant’s stripes on his sleeves. If he had leftenant’s stripes, he would have been Captain United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland. Heeda bin Third Leftenant Captain Canada, who sneaked into the States by canoe on Lake Ontario in 1812, judging by the hat. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/11 "2013-06-21T02:06:55Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Is it correct to call the commander of any vessel “captain?” While aboard in the military service, as well as in civil? (We all do in civilian life, but I can see on some occasions it might be confusing\* or socially off, or, perhaps, important in liability issues. Speaking for civilian protocol, it’s definitely not the done thing on my flight-deck or on any I’ve been in. Referring to each other as “captain” and “first officer” is reserved for the final steps in the support process of crew resource management. If your offsider is doing something stupid with the aeroplane and the standard words, hints, and suggestions aren’t getting the point across then you become formal and might state something such as “Captain you must listen! Go around now!”, possibly followed by “My controls!” I have flown with some non-pilot crew (flight attendants and radar operators mainly) who have called me “captain” and it’s hard to tell if they are taking the piss or not. One was an old sea dog turned radar operator who was being mock-formal when he said it, another was an ex-military singaporean flight attendant who used the title in all seriousness and there is a senior female flight attendant I fly with regularly who won’t call you “captain” directly but will refer to you as “the captain” when talking to others, even other flight attendants. I haven’t quite worked out where she stands on the seriousness/mock-formal spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/12 "2013-06-21T02:26:44Z")
Sorry. I don’t see this as a General Question. Moved to MPSIMS. **samclem** ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/13 "2013-06-21T02:36:23Z")
Count Chocula is really only an Earl. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/14 "2013-06-21T02:51:43Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > This time it’s stolen valor. > > However, what with all the other government malfeasance being discovered these days, the US Navy, to its credit, is being quite open about [Cap’n Crunch](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/06/20/193875243/hes-an-impostor-the-navy-says-about-capn-crunch), who after many years was discovered with false stripes. What military unit is he in, and where is the guide to the uniform published ? Perhaps he is an air force rescue officer.. where even a fire truck driver could be Captain. An airforce rescue boat driver could be given a naval looking uniform… ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/15 "2013-06-21T03:08:01Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > Captain America would never have leftenant’s stripes on his sleeves. If he had leftenant’s stripes, he would have been Captain United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland. [Captain Britain](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Britain). And of course, they spell it lieutenant over there, they just insist on pronouncing it funny. > [@Zebra](#): > > Count Chocula is really only an Earl. It’s the same level of peerage, he just got the title from Elizabeth or someone. Or he’s a Jarl, but then that would mean he was no vampire, but a draugr. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/16 "2013-06-21T04:21:32Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > If your offsider is doing something stupid with the aeroplane and the standard words, hints, and suggestions aren’t getting the point across then you become formal and might state something such as “Captain you must listen! Go around now!” “O Captain! My Captain! Rise up and hear the collision alarm!” ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/17 "2013-06-21T04:26:03Z")
He was actually Rear Admiral Crunch(y) bottom who was on board the Galaxy class closet (yes closet, not pocket) universe explorer when during the dimensional transition, entropy loving aliens (the Maxwellian demons of their anti-verse) attempted to take over the ship. These would later be referred to in the popular literature as “The Soggies.” The actual captain was, as is so often the case in these tragic tales, killed in the onslaught, his/her name lost to history and Mssr. Crunch (he’s actually French) assumed command. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/18 "2013-06-21T04:39:09Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > This time it’s stolen valor. > > However, what with all the other government malfeasance being discovered these days, the US Navy, to its credit, is being quite open about [Cap’n Crunch](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/06/20/193875243/hes-an-impostor-the-navy-says-about-capn-crunch), who after many years was discovered with false stripes.\*\* > > Is it correct to call the commander of any vessel “captain?” While aboard in the military service, as well as in civil? (We all do in civilian life, but I can see on some occasions it might be confusing\* or socially off, or, perhaps, important in liability issues. > > \*As in a cockpit of an airplane with a pilot requesting permission for take-off, receiving directions and acknowledging same, manned by Clarence Oveur, co-pilot named Roger, and Navigator named Victor. No. military officers in command of a vessel are not known as captain._Naval_ officers in command of vessels at sea, whatever their actual rank are known as captain. This is an RN tradition, NOT a USN tradition as stated above. Although, I believe the USN follows it.No idea about other Navies. Merchant ships officer in charge is a “master”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/19 "2013-06-21T05:54:21Z")
This has bad implications for General Mills. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/20 "2013-06-21T06:05:17Z")
Unless he’s made Post. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498.md?page=2)