# Another sweet military scandal: When is a Captain of a ship not a mill-rank Captain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498 "2013-06-20T19:12:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/21 "2013-06-21T06:16:29Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Count Chocula is really only an Earl. > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > It’s the same level of peerage, It certainly is. That’s why, in England at least, the wife of an Earl is a Countess. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/22 "2013-06-21T07:15:00Z")
The Commanding Officer of a USCG cutter or USN ship is the Captain whether he or she is an O-6 or not. And there was the time that he was the only officer addressed or referred to as Captain also. Another O-6 aboard would be addressed as “Commodore” and a USMC Captain (O-3) in charge of the marine detachment would be called “Major” because there was only one Captain aboard the ship and it would be disrespectful to address him as Lieutenant (USMC O-2, USN O-3). But they don’t do that as much anymore. The CO is still The Captain, but on a CVN (carrier) now the Executive Officer, Chief Engineer, and the Air Wing Commanders (more than one) are all O-6’s now. But they are all subordinate to the CO. Oh, and the Admiral who commands the Carrier Group and lives on the carrier probably has an O-6 or two on his staff. So the USN O-6’s are Captains and if the senior marine aboard is an O-3 he’s a Captain too now. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/23 "2013-06-21T12:34:46Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > It’s the same level of peerage. So they are peers among Peers? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/24 "2013-06-21T12:37:17Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > This time it’s stolen valor. My God, the press is going to have him for breakfast! They’ll eat him alive, I tell you! ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/25 "2013-06-21T12:47:37Z")
They’ll revoke his crunch berries. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/26 "2013-06-21T13:52:50Z")
So, fine, a captain has four stripes. So who says a “Cap’n” doesn’t have three? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/27 "2013-06-21T14:03:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > This has bad implications for General Mills. General Motors too. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/28 "2013-06-21T14:05:28Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > This has bad implications for General Mills. Think about all the Colonels of corn General Mills has promoted. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/29 "2013-06-21T14:24:08Z")
Of course, King Vitaman was forced to abdicate decades ago. Suspicions abound that Lucky the Leprechaun is really just a gnome (his Irish accent is obviously phony). And Sonny the Cuckoo Bird only PRETENDED to be insane, to evade the draft. And did you ever wonder what happened to the Alpha-Bits mailman? He’s in jail- went postal and shot all his colleagues (including King Linus the Lion-Hearted) And Quisp was deported- he was an illegal alien. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/30 "2013-06-21T15:36:28Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Also, Steve Rogers called himself Captain America, whereas he only had leftenant’s stripes on the sleeves of his jacket. Looks like an Army captain [here](http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/pc/Steve+Rogers+Scarlett+Johansson+Films+Avengers+_0dqjP0ki89l.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/31 "2013-06-21T15:38:09Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > My God, the press is going to have him for breakfast! They’ll eat him alive, I tell you! It’ll be a cereal killing. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/32 "2013-06-21T15:39:48Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > So, fine, a captain has four stripes. So who says a “Cap’n” doesn’t have three? Apparently I am out of uniform 😉 **Capt** ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/33 "2013-06-21T15:42:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’ll be a cereal killing. Release the Kraken! ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/34 "2013-06-21T20:50:26Z")
Y’all are funny! At least, you sure think so. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Yes, the commanding officer of a U.S. Navy vessel is referred to as “captain,” whether or not that is his or her actual rank. Civilian commanding officers are usually referred to as either “captain” or even “skipper.” > > [Captain (naval) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_(naval)) > [Sea captain - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_(nautical)) I read that, in addition, any Army or Marine captains who happen to be aboard are customarily referred to as “Major”, because it just doesn’t do to have multiple Captains. Is this true? And what do they do on a ship where the Captain is a Commodore? Or does that never happen? What about when there are other Navy Captains aboard (as on a flagship, the Admiral’s staff would certainly have some)? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/35 "2013-06-21T21:21:52Z")
> [@Capt\_Kirk](#): > > Apparently I am out of uniform 😉 > > **Capt** Naaah, you’re fine. Rodenberry always insisted that StarFleet was not a military organisation. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/36 "2013-06-21T21:57:25Z")
There are no more commodores in the U.S. Navy, alas - instead they have IMHO the single most goofy U.S. rank, “rear admiral (lower half)”: [Rear admiral (United States) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear_admiral_(United_States)#Rear_admiral_.28lower_half.29) Capt. Kirk wore two-and-a-half stripes on his TOS Starfleet uniform cuffs, not four: [http://www.badassoftheweek.com/kirk.jpg](http://www.badassoftheweek.com/kirk.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/37 "2013-06-21T23:41:39Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > There are no more commodores in the U.S. Navy, alas - instead they have IMHO the single most goofy U.S. rank, “rear admiral (lower half)” they are often the butt of jokes. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/38 "2013-06-22T01:51:30Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > they are often the butt of jokes. I bet they feel quite the ass. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/39 "2013-06-22T02:17:31Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > There are no more commodores in the U.S. Navy, alas - instead they have IMHO the single most goofy U.S. rank, “rear admiral (lower half)”: [Rear admiral (United States) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear_admiral_(United_States)#Rear_admiral_.28lower_half.29) > > Capt. Kirk wore two-and-a-half stripes on his TOS Starfleet uniform cuffs, not four: [http://www.badassoftheweek.com/kirk.jpg](http://www.badassoftheweek.com/kirk.jpg) No more rank of commodore, but they can be commodore (position) of a squadron. Mode of address is still “Captain” AFAIK. As for Rear Admiral Lower Half, some time ago I did a post going on ad tedium as to how we got to that – I’m on my mobile right now so I can’t stop to search and link but if you look up that plus my username as search terms you may find it. Let’s just say that when they came up with it there was a valid reason to call it that. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/40 "2013-06-22T06:53:30Z")
Re: Rear Admiral Lower Half… Somewhere in the Pentagon there’s a list of Rear Admirals. It’s a numerical list going by their ratings. Time in grade, efficiency ratings, awards and citations, etc. If you’re in the upper half of the list, you’re a Rear Admiral Upper Half and you wear 2 stars, get O-8 pay, and your next promotion is to Vice Admiral (3 stars, O-9). And if you’re on the lower half of the list, you’re a RAdm Lower Half (1 star, O-7) and your next promotion is to RAdm Upper Half. I never thought the rank differences between the 3 lower Flag or General Officer grades only matter to other Admirals or Generals. For a long time, the USCG and USN didn’t have the two grades of R Adms wear different rank insignia. That lasted until enough Brigadier Generals found out they were calling R Adms lower half “Sir” and enough Major Generals found out lousy O-7’s were calling them “Bob” or “Jimbo” instead of “Sir.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498.md?page=3)