# Another sweet military scandal: When is a Captain of a ship not a mill-rank Captain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498 "2013-06-20T19:12:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/41 "2013-06-22T08:06:03Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > “O Captain! My Captain! Rise up and hear the collision alarm!” Exactly! ---
**Author:** ![rjk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/42 "2013-06-22T14:50:11Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > So, fine, a captain has four stripes. So who says a “Cap’n” doesn’t have three? Three, and the apostrophe, thus: ||'|. (BTW, a ‘leftenant’ would only be in the army, IIRC.) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/43 "2013-06-22T16:22:23Z")
> [@rjk](#): > > (BTW, a ‘leftenant’ would only be in the army, IIRC.) And it’s still spelled “lieutenant” anyway. But yes, in the RN you pronounce it with the “oo” and no “f” (and salute palm down instead of palm forward). One could imagine someone in some regiment in centuries past saw it printed in old-style type as LIEVTENANT and ran with that. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/44 "2013-06-22T16:35:44Z")
Cap’n Crunch was too expensive for us growing up. We couldn’t afford any cereal associated with a commissioned officer, and there was no “Staff Sergeant Crunch” as far as we could tell (or would it have been “Petty Officer Crunch”?). ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/45 "2013-06-22T17:33:43Z")
I look forward to hours on hours of Congressional hearings as to whether or not he actually stays crunchy, even in milk. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/46 "2013-06-22T22:51:51Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Also, Steve Rogers called himself Captain America, whereas he only had leftenant’s stripes on the sleeves of his jacket. > > Also, in the Inverness pantomime, the part of Puss in Boots was played by a native of New Guinea with a plate in her lip… Wild applause! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/47 "2013-06-23T00:19:35Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Cap’n Crunch was too expensive for us growing up. We couldn’t afford any cereal associated with a commissioned officer, and there was no “Staff Sergeant Crunch” as far as we could tell (or would it have been “Petty Officer Crunch”?). We had to eat the generic brand of Cocoa Puffs. Instead of making you coo coo, you’d only get mildly worried. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/48 "2013-06-23T23:11:14Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Yes, the commanding officer of a U.S. Navy vessel is referred to as “captain,” whether or not that is his or her actual rank. Civilian commanding officers are usually referred to as either “captain” or even “skipper.” > > [Captain (naval) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_(naval)) > [Sea captain - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_(nautical)) As the first link says, a lower ranking CO is referred to as the captain when in command and on aboard his vessel. I take this to mean you can address them directly as “Captain” or indirectly as “the Captain”, but can you address them as “Captain X”, if you are under their command? ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/49 "2013-06-24T00:37:58Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > There are no more commodores in the U.S. Navy, alas - instead they have IMHO the single most goofy U.S. rank, “rear admiral (lower half)”: [Rear admiral (United States) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear_admiral_(United_States)#Rear_admiral_.28lower_half.29) > [@johnpost](#): > > they are often the butt of jokes. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I bet they feel quite the ass. I certainly wouldn’t want to have to admit to being the bottom half of a rear admiral… ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/50 "2013-06-24T00:50:54Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > No more rank of commodore, but they can be commodore (position) of a squadron. Mode of address is still “Captain” AFAIK. > > As for Rear Admiral Lower Half, some time ago I did a post going on ad tedium as to how we got to that – I’m on my mobile right now so I can’t stop to search and link but if you look up that plus my username as search terms you may find it. Let’s just say that when they came up with it there was a valid reason to call it that. SubRon commodores are usually captains, but are always addressed as “Commodore.” And as stupid as “Rear Admiral (Lower Half)” sounds, it’s better than “Commodore Admiral”… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/51 "2013-06-24T01:11:15Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > And as stupid as “Rear Admiral (Lower Half)” sounds, All kidding aside, they have lot of Seamen under them. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/52 "2013-06-24T03:24:38Z")
That must be very exciting. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/53 "2013-06-24T05:00:06Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > That must be very exciting. Yes, but it’s hard. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/54 "2013-06-24T11:56:36Z")
I’ve heard sailors in the US Navy refer to the commanding officer of a boat as the skipper. So it appears to be used informally at least. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498/55 "2013-06-24T12:41:00Z")
I’ve heard sailors refer to whoever was in charge on the bridge after a collision as “Captain Crunch,” so maybe after all these years his commission came back around through unoffical channels. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-sweet-military-scandal-when-is-a-captain-of-a-ship-not-a-mill-rank-captain/661498.md?page=2)