# Another Swiftie lie gets shot down (this one's for you, Sam Stone) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 3, 2004, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273 "2004-10-03T02:16:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/61 "2004-10-03T19:16:04Z")
Well, so far we have the following criticisms: 1) I’m a foreigner, so I’m not allowed speak. 2) I’ve never been injured in combat, so I’m not allowed to speak. How about we restrict ourselves to the facts, hmm? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/62 "2004-10-03T19:16:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I didn’t know you had been wounded in combat, [b[xenonphon41\*\*. > > A minor hijack from our regularly scheduled left-wing melt down - I assume that “rice” shrapnel refers to a piece of metal of roughly the size of a grain of rice, not an actual rice grain. Am I correct? > > Regards, > Shodan [Ed McMahon] You are not corect sir!!! [/Ed McMahon] A Google search showed the swifters were referring most of the time to “brown rice” as causing the wound of his “undeserved third medal” Now, if x-rays were in color maybe you will have a point. Disregards. Ed. [sub]left wing meltdown? brown rice is one thing, brown nosing of the swifters and Bush eventually leads to a meltdown, but not from the left.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/63 "2004-10-03T19:16:54Z")
**Sam** , I’ve never eaten rice in Canada, but I’m pretty sure it’s distinguishable from shrapnel. If the report cites that Kerry received “shrapnel” in his backside, that’s probably not referring to pieces of grain. (Note I say “probably”; it’s within reason that someone might’ve assumed shrapnel where none was apparent). However, it’s not relevant to the purple heart. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/64 "2004-10-03T19:18:53Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > **Lib** : > > First, sorry about that “-ertarian” instead of “-eral”; old habits die hard. It was an unconscious mistake, I assure you. > > Second, it’s not this particular purple heart/rice shrapnel subdiscussion that I’m referring to as “defending and promoting” the SBVFT lies. **Sam** continues to cheerlead for this group, about whose proven improbity he has no excuses for ignorance. No problem on the name thing. We old-timers deserve some slack. 😉 Regarding Sam’s defense of SBVT, it’s okay by me if someone says that it’s ignorant to support them, but that same person should also say that it’s ignorant to support MoveOn or Michael Moore. Those, too, are partisan shills, although Moore is more devious about it, proclaiming himself to be the “anti-Democrat” even as he schmoozes the Democrats at their convention. What I don’t like is leftists pretending to hold the moral highground, lashing out at Sam for something they do themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/65 "2004-10-03T19:19:10Z")
Thanks for the explanations, **Sam** and **xenophon41**. In regard to your qualifications, **xenophon41** , ISTM that the Swift Boat Veterans have even better qualifications to comment on the nature of wounds and heroism in combat than you or I. Many or most of them were wounded, many or most of them were decorated for heroism. And yet people seem to have no hestitation to attack them. Even when the attacks are factually challenged, as in the OP. Incidentally, **Sam** , I find your summary statements to be very useful. It is very difficult to wade thru most of the threads on Kerry’s war service, as the signal to noise ratio from the accidentally and deliberately misleading and misled makes it nearly impossible to separate fact from fiction. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/66 "2004-10-03T19:21:01Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Well, so far we have the following criticisms: 1) I’m a foreigner, so I’m not allowed speak. 2) I’ve never been injured in combat, so I’m not allowed to speak. > > How about we restrict ourselves to the facts, hmm? Ah, didn’t see this gem before I replied to the rice = shrapnel idiocy. To be clear, **Sam** , I’m not saying you’re not allowed to speak. I’m saying you’re a cowardly little shit criticizing a hero across a wide gulf of experience and time. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/67 "2004-10-03T19:24:41Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > The minor bruise did not qualify for a purple heart. > > The report in question appears to be written by John Kerry. The Bronze Star citation was not, and it corroborated the report that you still only have innuendo to pretend it was written by John Kerry. Stick to the facts my ass! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/68 "2004-10-03T19:39:55Z")
**Sam** : > [@](#): > > - You’re a class act.\* Oh, that’s rich: _you_ denigrating another poster as a “class act.” Well, I’ll tell you, you’re a real class act yourself. You’ve been gunning for Kerry since the day it became apparent that he was going to be the Democratic nominee for president, employing the lowest form inuendo, smear tactics, and character assassination you could get your grimy hands on. No accusation has been too low, too suspect, or too dishonorable for you not to literally wallow in it here on the boards. You’ve done everything in your power to smear Kerry, truth be damned. Consider the thread on Kerry’s war record. During the course of that debate you simply invented facts to support your claim that Kerry could not have ever been in Cambodia. You argued, for example, that Swift boats were too large to be able to navigate the waterways between Cambodia and Vietnam. The claim was total bullshit, and you just pulled it out of your ass, because you will apparently stoop to any level to cast shit at Kerry. That’s just one small example, taken from a very great number. My respect for you was hard-earned. It did not come easily, because it is in fact _easy_ to see that you don’t really care about the truth; it’s _easy_ to see that you just care about promoting your agenda. It’s _not easy_ to see that you are really interested in the facts of the matter, and in an honest debate over those facts. But for a long period of time I’ve given you the benefit of the doubt, and even defended you on occasion when I felt other posters were being too harsh on you. No more. You deserve every bit of the shit you get for your posts here. I hope they fucking lay it on thick. You can be assured that I will. After the latest shit you’ve tried to pull –- denegrating the record of a man who served his country with honor, and laid his life on the line in the performance of his duty – you deserve no respect whatsoever. And I know why you’ve done it, as well. You’ve done it because you’re shaking in your wittle boots that we on the left have been right about these issues all along, and that in the arena of truth, you have absolutely nothing to left to say. You were wrong, completely wrong, and you followed your fucking chimpanzee emperor off a fucking cliff. Now, since you can’t argue the facts, you stoop to character assissination instead. As far as **Diogenes** is concerned, even if he is wrong about which wound belongs to which Purple Heart, I’ll tell you this – he has more class in his little finger than you’ve got in your entire body. You go fuck yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/69 "2004-10-03T19:47:53Z")
> [@iampunha](#): > > Not a serious wound: true. Required medical treatment? Iunno, but ISTM Kerry got medical treatment in the form of a bandage. It doesn’t say it required medical treatment either, but I’m hardly schooled on what requires medical treatment in a combat zone… If the wound were really just a simple contusion, which by definition is an injury in which the skin is unbroken, why would even a bandage be called for? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/70 "2004-10-03T19:54:05Z")
Feel the love. It’s amazing how worked up you guys can get when you can’t dispute the facts. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/71 "2004-10-03T19:55:30Z")
I invite anyone to slog through the twenty some pages of the Kerry thread. **Sam** pulled more stuff out of his ass than Kerry’s doctor ever could have. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/72 "2004-10-03T19:57:51Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Feel the love. > > It’s amazing how worked up you guys can get when you can’t dispute the facts. If by “facts”, you mean blatant, partisan smears, then, yeah, I’d have to agree with you. :wally ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/73 "2004-10-03T20:05:03Z")
[PDF File - Kerry Medical Report for 3rd purple Heart](http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/3rd%20Purple%20Heart.pdf) > [@](#): > > Lt. Kerry suffered shrapnel wounds in his left buttock, and contusions on his right forearm. From [The Washington Post:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21239-2004Aug21.html) > [@](#): > > As they were heading back to the boat, Kerry and Rassmann decided to blow up a five-ton rice bin to deny food to the Vietcong. In an interview last week, Rassmann recalled that they climbed on top of the huge pile and dug a hole in the rice. On the count of three, they tossed their grenades into the hole and ran. > > Evidently, Kerry did not run fast enough. “He got some frags and pieces of rice in his rear end,” Rassmann said with a laugh. “It was more embarrassing than painful.” At the time, the incident did not seem significant, and Kerry did not mention it to anyone when he got back on the boat. An unsigned “personnel casualty report,” however, erroneously implies that Kerry suffered “shrapnel wounds in his left buttocks” later in the day, following the mine explosion incident, when he also received “contusions to his right forearm.” Now, I know facts are difficult things for some, so feel free to respond by howling and stamping your feet and calling me names. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/74 "2004-10-03T20:36:40Z")
**Sam** , I won’t try to argue with you that Kerry received his 3rd Purple Heart, from injuries received-- rice in the butt, and contusions on the arm. I know that it has been documented. (I also realize, that as a Johnny-come-lately to this debate… you and I technically haven’t been arguing with each other :).) I _will_ argue against the “complaints” that these injuries do not merit a Purple Heart, though. From, [FactCheck.org](http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231) > [@](#): > > In any case, even a “friendly fire” injury can qualify for a purple heart “as long as the ‘friendly’ projectile or agent was released with the full intent of inflicting damage or destroying enemy troops or equipment,” according to the website of the Military Order of the Purple Heart. All agree that rice was being destroyed that day on the assumption that it otherwise might feed Viet Cong fighters. The man did not receive his third Purple Heart, under “fraudulent circumstances”, which is what the SBVfT are arguing. Case closed. Let’s move on. LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/75 "2004-10-03T20:41:08Z")
I have no love of the military. I think war is perhaps the stupidest endeavour in which humanity has ever engaged. Military service cuts little ice with me as a measure of a person’s fitness to be in elective office (although how one conducts himself in uniform - as how one conducts oneself in any situation - does). That being said, does no one else recognize the utter absurdity of people acting in support of a man who performed no acts of heroism during his time in uniform going after someone who performed multple acts of heroism for supposedly _not being heroic enough_? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/76 "2004-10-03T20:42:00Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > [PDF File - Kerry Medical Report for 3rd purple Heart](http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/3rd%20Purple%20Heart.pdf) > > From [The Washington Post:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21239-2004Aug21.html) The signed report by the Admiral does not refer to the butt wound. > [@](#): > > Now, I know facts are difficult things for some, so feel free to respond by howling and stamping your feet and calling me names. The original claim: > [@Sam Stone](#): > > 1. Kerry’s third purple heart was fraudulent. Kerry claims he was wounded in the butt from a mine explosion. The swifties say his butt wound came from rice shrapnel during a routine clearing operation earlier in the day, during which they were not under enemy fire. I believe this has been widely accepted as being true, although some claim the purple heart was also for a ‘minor contusion’, which I think is silly. No one got purple hearts for minor bruises. Without the ass wound, there’s no purple heart. So we have two lies: The swifters saying that Kerry only claimed the butt wound, and that the rice was the only reason for the award. What facts did they they and you used to claim that? You are pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/77 "2004-10-03T20:53:43Z")
What **Otto** said. And the two of them don’t ever stop and they display no shame about it whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/78 "2004-10-03T21:54:09Z")
Sam claimed in the course of the previous 22-page monstrosity that Kerry’s “contusions” were only a “minor bruise,” and that medical treatment was not “necessary” for a “minor bruise,” thereby disqualifying him for the Purple Heart. In response to those claims, I provided multiple authorities stating that “contusions” _can_ be serious wounds and _can_ require medical treatment. As with all facts that do not fit Sam’s spin on this matter, Sam completely ignored it. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/79 "2004-10-03T22:08:21Z")
Actually, that post turns out to have been [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5221052#post5221052) from a contemporaneous Pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/80 "2004-10-03T22:31:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It is very difficult to wade thru most of the threads on Kerry’s war service, as the signal to noise ratio from the accidentally and deliberately misleading and misled makes it nearly impossible to separate fact from fiction. The situation would improve dramatically if you and **Sam** weren’t heaping on the Swiftie-approved bullshit by the truckload. You two are lucky that this board doesn’t have a policy against folks deliberately sabotaging the fight against ignorance… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273.md?page=5)