# Another Swiftie lie gets shot down (this one's for you, Sam Stone) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 3, 2004, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273 "2004-10-03T02:16:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![JohnFowles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@JohnFowles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnFowles)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/161 "2004-10-04T22:32:27Z")
It’s funny how **Sam Stone** runs away and hides when he is exposed for the liar he is, don’t you think? Anyone here would be surprised if he turns up in another thread and just happened to have forgotten ever posting in this one, hm? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/162 "2004-10-04T23:11:42Z")
> [@Spiny Norman](#): > > … the next one steps up and thinks he’s bringing down both NASA and established science by asking “How come there are NO STARS in the photos, huh ? Answer that!” Ummm because everyone knows the stars only come out at night. Sorry, couldn’t resist 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/163 "2004-10-04T23:33:33Z")
LilShieste: Your “Treatment” link on the previous page isn’t working. I’d like to see it, because if it indeed states that Kerry’s contusion required treatment than it would be the first major swiftee innacuracy that I’d seen demonstrated. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/164 "2004-10-05T00:00:37Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > **Lib** honey, at least when I’m accidentally too obscure for people to understand me, I **apologize** for it. You seem to take pride in it! I’m sorry that I missed your apology. Could you link me to it? ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/165 "2004-10-05T00:03:07Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Your “Treatment” link on the previous page isn’t working. I’d like to see it, because if it indeed states that Kerry’s contusion required treatment than it would be the first major swiftee innacuracy that I’d seen demonstrated. Oops. Sorry about that (didn’t notice). Let’s try it again: [http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john\_kerry/medical.html](http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/medical.html) > [@](#): > > Mr. Kerry was treated for injuries sustained when he was thrown against a bulkhead resulting in a contusion to his right forearm, as well as a shrapnel injury in his left upper buttock. His exam at that time revealed localized bruising of his right medial forearm and of his buttock from the shrapnel with some localized bruising. An x-ray of his forearm did not reveal evidence of fracture. He was treated with a tetanus shot, topical dressing and an ace bandage and advised to apply warm soaks to his right forearm. LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/166 "2004-10-05T01:48:35Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s funny how Sam Stone runs away and hides when he is exposed for the liar he is, don’t you think? > > Anyone here would be surprised if he turns up in another thread and just happened to have forgotten ever posting in this one, hm? Oh, I’m sorry - I must have missed your devastating factual rebuttal. It must have been mixed in with all the obnoxious, name-calling bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/167 "2004-10-05T02:02:42Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > It must have been mixed in with all the obnoxious, name-calling bullshit. Quick! Someone help us find out who added “If you gotta flame, do it here.” to the description of The Pit in the middle of the night! ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/168 "2004-10-05T02:55:20Z")
> [@LilShieste](#): > > Oops. Sorry about that (didn’t notice). Let’s try it again: > > [http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john\_kerry/medical.html](http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/medical.html) > LilShieste Hmmm. That is indeed interesting. I was expecting that to be another PDF from his official naval records, which is what the Swiftvets are using when they make their specific claim. The Swiftvets do cite where they get their information from. The citation, and the action report. What you have provided is a third person giving us a summary of information we are not allowed to view firsthand. I can think of very good reasons why he would not want his medical records released. Privacy being the first. A more suspicious man than I would doubt the veracity of this summary. I would like to think that a Doctor making such a summary, in official capacity, would not do such a thing, nor risk credentials. I see this summary is dated from April. It would be nice if we could know when it was posted to the website. If it was posted to the website while the book was still being written, researched, and fact-checked, than I would think that the Swiftvets have lied by ommission by not including it. If it was not then what the Swiftvets wrote was accurate at the time, but simply dated. Please do note that they cite their sources here. One of the complaints of the book is that Kerry has picked and chosen what to release to the public, yet has made his Vietnam service the issue of his campaign. Having done so they feel is obliged to provide all the firsthand information. So, the Swiftvets are accurate in what they describe, but would have lied by ommission had this information been released prior to the researching and factchecking of the book. The claim in the book that Kerry “very probably” received the 3rd purple heart as a result of his prior buttocks wound, now seems false. I would of course like to see the official Navy records rather than a summary, but I understand why they would not be released. I would think that the xray, the bandage, the diagnosis, and the prescription to soak it, would qualify as treatment under the current criteria for the purple heart. You have uncovered the first major innacuracy that I have seen substantiated to a degree where a reasonable person must accept it. Great job. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/169 "2004-10-05T03:18:12Z")
Seeing as you are here **Sam** , you might address the question I asked in the other forum. How did you come across the Chicago newspaper article you recently linked to? Links would help. It seems odd to me that you, a Canadian, would be a regular reader of Illonios newspapers. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/170 "2004-10-05T03:23:27Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I would think that the xray, the bandage, the diagnosis, and the prescription to soak it, would qualify as treatment under the current criteria for the purple heart. > > You have uncovered the first major innacuracy that I have seen substantiated to a degree where a reasonable person must accept it. > > Great job. It seems to me, that in the deluge of criticism, where congratulations are due they must be acknowledged. Congratulations **Scylla**. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/171 "2004-10-05T03:24:43Z")
Jesus, Sevastapol. What is your deal? Now it’s not good enough to provide a cite, but I have to reconstruct the chain of events that led to me finding the cite? What difference would it make if I got it from National Review, The Washington Post, a Google search, or the Swift Vets web site? Or perhaps I saw it because I go to the Sun-Times routinely to read the columnists there, as well as Roger Ebert. I like the Sun-Times because it doesn’t require registration and has a lot of my favorite syndicated columnists, so I read that paper quite frequently. But if it makes you happy, a little Pixie whispered it to me. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/172 "2004-10-05T03:31:27Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I was expecting that to be another PDF from his official naval records, which is what the Swiftvets are using when they make their specific claim. The Swiftvets do cite where they get their information from. The citation, and the action report. > > What you have provided is a third person giving us a summary of information we are not allowed to view firsthand. I can think of very good reasons why he would not want his medical records released. Privacy being the first. I was hoping that you would be a reasonable person, regarding this summary coming from a secondary source, since- as you pointed out- Kerry probably didn’t want to release his actual medical records. So, thank you for being that reasonable person. > [@Scylla](#): > > I see this summary is dated from April. It would be nice if we could know when it was posted to the website. If it was posted to the website while the book was still being written, researched, and fact-checked, than I would think that the Swiftvets have lied by ommission by not including it. I, too, would be interested in any information on this. I would like to think that the Swift Vets had made the accusation, while not knowing this information (that he received treatment for his arm), but going off of the vitriol that has been spewed thus far- I wouldn’t be surprised if they knew of this fact, and just didn’t think the wound was “prominent” enough to warrant a Purple Heart. > [@Scylla](#): > > You have uncovered the first major innacuracy that I have seen substantiated to a degree where a reasonable person must accept it. > > Great job. Thank you, **Scylla**. LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/173 "2004-10-05T03:33:08Z")
> [@sevastopol](#): > > …It seems odd to me that you, a Canadian, would be a regular reader of Illonios newspapers. Are you high? You are wondering why someone would read a particular online newspaper? The contortions you guys will go through are simply amazing. Or are you honestly stunned that a Canadian (they have Internet access?!? :eek: ) would read an online newspaper? ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/174 "2004-10-05T03:53:01Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I would think that the xray, the bandage, the diagnosis, and the prescription to soak it, would qualify as treatment under the current criteria for the purple heart. > > You have uncovered the first major innacuracy that I have seen substantiated to a degree where a reasonable person must accept it. > > Great job. Great job yourself from someone who has been reading the thread though not posting to it much. Someone more interested in winning the debate than in figuring out the whole story would not have posted as you did. Folks on both sides (and firmly in the middle) on this board would not have posted as you did. That was an extremely honorable post. ISTR that at least Bradley and possibly one other person during the 2000 Democratic search for a presidential candidate … were not willing to release their medical records, so this is not restricted to Kerry. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/175 "2004-10-05T04:37:52Z")
I posted all kinds of caveats like that in other threads. I got accused of ‘bait and switch’ and dishonesty when I refused to give up on others. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/176 "2004-10-05T04:47:34Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I would think that the xray, the bandage, the diagnosis, and the prescription to soak it, would qualify as treatment under the current criteria for the purple heart. > > You have uncovered the first major innacuracy that I have seen substantiated to a degree where a reasonable person must accept it. > > Great job. Kudos, **Scylla**. Maybe there is hope for the SDMB after all. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/177 "2004-10-05T04:56:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Kudos, Scylla. Maybe there is hope for the SDMB after all. Let’s see if we can get some of the opposition to admit that some of the Swiftvets claims MAY have merit first. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/178 "2004-10-05T05:08:31Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Let’s see if we can get some of the opposition to admit that some of the Swiftvets claims MAY have merit first. Personally, I was inclined to believe that Kerry wasn’t in Cambodia on Christmas, and there’s an admission like that in an earlier thread. However, O’Neill’s taped conversation with Nixon about being in Cambodia on a Swift Boat and **Minty’s** cite (the “perfectly good evidence” one) scotched that idea properly. I believe I know the arguments from both sides here, please let’s not rehash this one. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/179 "2004-10-05T06:36:04Z")
> [@Atticus Finch](#): > > Personally, I was inclined to believe that Kerry wasn’t in Cambodia on Christmas… Good for you! Does _anybody_ dispute [‘Kerry’s Cambodia Whopper’](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27211-2004Aug23.html)? ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273/180 "2004-10-05T06:45:17Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Good for you! Does _anybody_ dispute [‘Kerry’s Cambodia Whopper’](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27211-2004Aug23.html)? Look out for the rest of the sentence there. I said I _was_ inclined to accept it, but now do not, given the evidence to the contrary. And come on, is there _any_ claim of the SBVfT that hasn’t been disputed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-swiftie-lie-gets-shot-down-this-ones-for-you-sam-stone/267273.md?page=10)