# Another Thread On 3D Movies Possibly Failing **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 29, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660 "2011-05-29T14:41:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/61 "2011-06-03T09:12:20Z")
> [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](#): > > The tedious sequel that banked entirely on nerdy fanboy nostalgia? > > Oh, the burgeoning creativity. It oozed from the screen. **Chronos** nailed it. I was not at all speaking to the quality of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/62 "2011-06-03T09:27:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s still possible to do it right, though, like in _Avatar_, and when it is it contributes to the immersion, rather than hurting it. \*Avatar \*was mostly animated, though. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/63 "2011-06-03T11:46:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > How could 3D possibly reduce the choices available? What choice can a director make in 2D, that he couldn’t also make in 3D? Camera moves and lighting choices are somewhat reduced, and significantly more difficult in 3d (supposedly, I’m not a director, I just read and listen to lots of interviews with them). It’s possible that the next generation of directors will find ways round these problems, or that the technology will improve to the extent that the impact is minimal. That still won’t mean that every film will need to be 3d. To go back to the issue of colour, and how that impacted on director’s choices, watch some classic film noir. A defining characteristic of this genre was the lighting, and how it enhanced the disturbing atmosphere of the films. This is a difficult effect to replicate in colour, and is often done by using such strong blue or green filters that it might as well be monochrome anyway. 3d is a tool, like colour, that comes with some advantages and some disadvantages. The idea that it’s always good, or should be used wherever possible, is IMO bad for films as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Dietrich\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@Dietrich\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dietrich_K)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/64 "2011-06-03T11:57:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Huh. Were this Facebook, sir, instead of the SDMB, I would “Like” your comment. As it is, it made me cackle. And cackling is pretty much always a good thing. Bravo! ---
**Author:** ![Dietrich\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@Dietrich\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dietrich_K)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/65 "2011-06-03T12:02:02Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Huh what? You don’t think something like Rashomon would be have better shot in color? The use of light would be much more dramatic and compelling in color. I know you asked not this question of me, but I’m a-gonna answer anyway: No. If anything, I find monochrome films to have much more compelling image compositions than color films. But then I’m an old fart (not implying that young people [and you, specifically, if you are, indeed, a young’un] are somehow inferior to me and my agedness; just suggesting that, IME, people of the younger persuasion tend to find monochromatic, or black and white, films more or less jarring, and not in a good way, to their senses). ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/66 "2011-06-03T17:35:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The dimness is easy enough to fix. It’s a factor of 2 (or maybe 4, depending on the projection process) reduction in brightness. That’s hardly insurmountable: Just make projectors with bulbs twice or four times as bright. Honest question; why aren’t they doing this, then? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/67 "2011-06-03T17:58:12Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > Hmm…this sounds oddly familiar - “Nobody will buy video machines as they are too expensive and which do you buy, Betamax or VHS?” “Nobody will buy tapes instead of records - which would you buy, 8 track or cassette?” “My Walkman’s fine, why would I need a CD player?”“What is an MP3? I have CD’s so I don’t care!” > I believe a lot of Hollywood executives saw TV as a fad that would soon go away. > Blu-Ray anyone? The key factor is whether a tipping-point number of people come to perceive the new technology as granting new qualitative advantages. Blu-Ray hasn’t achieved that yet (DVD took over from VHS _much_ faster, and I believe still outsells Blu-Ray in total volume and for most specific titles at physical retail outlets), and some cheap rush releases aside, nobody really thinks Blu-Ray technology is _worse_ than DVD. With present 3D movie technology, not only are many people unconvinced of significant new benefits, but some _are_ convinced of a qualitative _loss_. 3D might hang around as a niche format for a while, but it’s going to have to do something very different to improve from there. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/68 "2011-06-03T18:01:36Z")
Quoth **Steophan** : > [@](#): > > To go back to the issue of colour, and how that impacted on director’s choices, watch some classic film noir. A defining characteristic of this genre was the lighting, and how it enhanced the disturbing atmosphere of the films. This is a difficult effect to replicate in colour, and is often done by using such strong blue or green filters that it might as well be monochrome anyway. And as a result of this, some directors, even now, will deliberately choose to make a film in black and white, for the artistic effect. Or mostly black-and-white, with a few small splashes of color, like in _Schindler’s List_. Likewise, even if 3D takes off in a big way and becomes as ubiquitous as color is now, there will still be some directors deliberately choosing to use 2D, for the artistic effect. The option is still there. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/69 "2011-06-03T18:13:28Z")
I’ve only seen 2 movies in 3-D. Both were marketed as “IMAX-3D” **Avatar**. That was one of the most amazing cinematic experiences of my life. Amazing. I was immersed in that world. And unlike a previous poster’s experience, I did not notice _any_ gimmick “Look at me ! I’m 3-D!” type of scenes. Ticket cost $13.50 **Pirates 4** , which I saw yesterday. It was showing on three screens: 2-D; “Disney Digital 3-D”; and “an IMAX 3-D Experience” (the one I saw). I saw no reason for this movie to be in 3-D. Didn’t add anything that I could see. Plus, there were many gimmick scenes that called attention to themselves. Ticket price: $18.00 (and this was a matinee!) Bottom line for me – if I can pay $13.50 and get an **Avatar** -like experience, I will go to the movies more often specifically to enjoy that experience. If I am ever again asked to pay $18.00 for a **Pirates** -like experience; well, forget it. Don’t get me wrong–I liked the movie itself a lot. But the 3-D ripoff was my take-home message, NOT “good movie.” ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/70 "2011-06-03T18:28:21Z")
> [@Dietrich\_K](#): > > I know you asked not this question of me, but I’m a-gonna answer anyway: No. > > If anything, I find monochrome films to have much more compelling image compositions than color films. But then I’m an old fart (not implying that young people [and you, specifically, if you are, indeed, a young’un] are somehow inferior to me and my agedness; just suggesting that, IME, people of the younger persuasion tend to find monochromatic, or black and white, films more or less jarring, and not in a good way, to their senses). It’s simply another tool in the kit. Schindler’s List was in black and white, but there were come color elements that enhanced the movie. There are movies, 12 Angry Men comes to mind, where color isn’t going to make a difference. But something like Rashomon where light is used as a symbol. That is going to be more effective in color. ---
**Author:** ![Dietrich\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@Dietrich\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dietrich_K)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/71 "2011-06-03T18:39:57Z")
> [@treis](#): > > But something like Rashomon where light is used as a symbol. That is going to be more effective in color. And that’s clearly one man’s opinion (yours). I seem not to recall disputing your (or anyone’s) previous assertion that 3-D is one of many tools in the modern filmmaker’s metaphorical pocket. I _do_, however, seem to recall answering your question of whether one would expect color to make the **Rashomon** viewing experience better. ---
**Author:** ![Carl\_Corey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Carl\_Corey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carl_Corey)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/72 "2011-06-03T20:40:11Z")
Guys, quit fighting over Rashomon. Can’t you just agree that you have different perspectives? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/73 "2011-06-03T22:06:37Z")
> [@Dietrich\_K](#): > > And that’s clearly one man’s opinion (yours). I seem not to recall disputing your (or anyone’s) previous assertion that 3-D is one of many tools in the modern filmmaker’s metaphorical pocket. I _do_, however, seem to recall answering your question of whether one would expect color to make the **Rashomon** viewing experience better. Yeah, you mentioned something independent of color/B&W. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/74 "2011-06-03T22:45:08Z")
I get tired of wearing an extra set of often heavy glasses over my glasses and getting a negligible benefit. If they perfect 3D without glasses and stop charging me more for it then I’m indifferent to the technology. As it stands, it is annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/75 "2011-06-03T23:34:13Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I get tired of wearing an extra set of often heavy glasses over my glasses and getting a negligible benefit. If they perfect 3D without glasses and stop charging me more for it then I’m indifferent to the technology. As it stands, it is annoying. This is basically how I feel. If 3D movies were the same price as 2D movies and did not require you to wear those annoying glasses then I wouldn’t care much one way or the other. As things are, they want to charge extra for an effect that I find unimpressive AND that requires me to awkwardly wear two pairs of glasses at once. No thanks, Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/76 "2011-06-04T02:56:10Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Huh what? You don’t think something like Rashomon would be have better shot in color? The use of light would be much more dramatic and compelling in color. No, I can’t say as I agree with that. Black and white allows for stronger contrasts, and more interesting interplay between shadow and light, than color films, both of which I think are essential to the overall effect of _Rashomon_, both visually, and thematically. I think color would lessen this film. It’s worth noting that _Rashomon_ was released in 1950, so it’s not like color films didn’t exist. I don’t know if shooting in black and white was a deliberate choice on Kurosawa’s part, or was forced on him by economic necessity, but 1950 is pretty close to the end of the black and white era, so it seems unlikely that Kurosawa could not have filmed it in color if he had wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/77 "2011-06-04T02:57:14Z")
If 3D dies out I will blame greed, both producers and theaters. The producers for up converting films that have no need to be 3D badly and the theaters for both over charging and not hiring the right staff to show all movies correctly. 3D should be either for immersion (such as Avatar) or for creating mode and emotion (the bedroom scene in Toy Story 3). Once film makers get over the urge to make things jump and we start seeing movies where things just look more “real”, like you are looking through a window on the world instead of a picture you will see what 3D can really do for a film. Imagine using distance and spacing to more effectively show personal isolation or loss instead of just trying to get the audience to jump. I am not a director, but I can see that in the right hands this could really enhance the narrative and emotional impact in a way similar to lighting and color palettes. Of course, like color, it might be more effective in its absence sometimes. Think Wizard of Oz, or even better, the original Psycho. Hitchcock made it in black and white because it looked more real. And I hope that someday directors will be able to as easily choose 2D if that will bring their vision to life more effectively. ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660/78 "2011-06-04T03:22:00Z")
Regarding 3D TVs, Japan is converting to all digital broadcasts this summer. HDTV uptake has been lackluster so far, with something like 30% or less of homes. Makers have been pushing the newer 3D TVs _hard_ over the last year and a half or so. Sales of 3D HDTVs have been even lower than standard HDTVs. There’s obviously a market for HDTVs, forced in part by public policy, but few people have been buying them. Part of it is the size of Japanese homes, which makes the larger HDTV less attractive since there’s not much point when you have to sit farther away from the screen than the physical space allows. All of the 3D capable TVs are also HD, so you could get two for the price of one (and a half, since 3D sets cost more typically) but again, people aren’t that enthusiastic about it. And this is in Japan, where people often throw 5 year old electronics out because they’re “old.” My dad in the US recently got a big-screen TV (don’t think it’s full HD) after throwing out a _30 year old_ model. The usability of all the 3D technologies sucks. Passive glasses cut light. Active glasses cause problems with people who are sensitive to flicker. The convergence-point models have a very, very narrow point of focus, and many people can’t see it well. All of them cause headaches in sensitive individuals, and increased eyestrain in most viewers. And some people don’t see the 3D effect well, so for them there’s even less reason to buy a 3D capable TV. The only way I see 3D being standard is if companies make it standard, like not offering any black and white TVs anymore and all agreeing to make only color models. And even then, models that have an option to disable 3D will probably outsell those that force the issue. Anything that costs more will almost certainly have lower sales than the cheaper version. Active shutter glasses are my bet for biggest and fastest failure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-thread-on-3d-movies-possibly-failing/583660.md?page=3)