# Another Tipping Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 14, 2020, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960 "2020-02-14T22:55:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/1 "2020-02-14T22:55:33Z")
Why has the tipping rate gone up from 15% to 20-25% for in restaurant dining? Why is 20% starting to become an expected tip for deliveries? Why is 20% starting to become an expected tip for pick up orders? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/2 "2020-02-14T23:00:02Z")
Is it? I still give 15% for satisfactory to good service, and 20% for very good service, and more for exceptional service, and I’ve never gotten any pushback for it. Where have you heard that this is the new norm? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/3 "2020-02-14T23:02:19Z")
Yeah, another one. > **[When did the standard for tips in a restaurant become 20%](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=107398)** > > Years back, decades, it was 10%; then it became 15%. In the last several years it is 20%! Will it be 25% next year? I tip, but I despise the system. I think restaurant owners should just pay their workers a decent wage and be done with it. Bah... > **[Why has tipping % gone up?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=446028)** > > This is not another thread to debate the pros and cons of tipping. What I want to know is why has the % of the meal that you are supposed to leave as a tip gone up over the years. I am not American so I may be incorrect but by following the tipping... ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/4 "2020-02-14T23:23:09Z")
Because restaurants think it would be awesome if you paid a fifth again higher for things, and thus hint at it whenever they can. Red Robin’s table-pay devices default the tip to 20%, and many higher-end restaurants will up the price by 20% without asking or giving you the option to say no. With this awareness that 20% is expected many people just shrug and go along with it. I continue to pay around 1/6th (~17%), and would probably pay less if I thought my food would keep reaching me intact. In any just world restaurants would just pay their damn employees. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/5 "2020-02-15T00:12:54Z")
Because people serving you live in a world of skyrocketing prices too! ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/6 "2020-02-15T00:19:03Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Why is 20% starting to become an expected tip for pick up orders? We didn’t used to tip for to-go orders at all, did we? I feel like those companies that used tablet/ipad based POS terminals started this trend. Those stupid terminals suggest a tip by default, and you have to specifically go out of your way normally to press no tip. A lot of people are suggestable and do not want to seem like they’re going out of the norm by not tipping, so they started accepting the default tip. And boom, something that wasn’t even considered a tipped service now has a tip expectation. What’s next, tip your fast food drive through worker? Why not. Companies can try every which way to get consumers to feel pressured into paying their workers instead of paying them themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/7 "2020-02-15T00:43:44Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Because people serving you live in a world of skyrocketing prices too! This argument would work if restaurant food prices (upon which tip amounts are based) were somehow the only ones not rising. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/8 "2020-02-15T00:56:28Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Because people serving you live in a world of skyrocketing prices too! Amazingly, though, 15% of a higher price is precisely the same proportion of that higher price as 15% of the old price was. 20% is inflation on top of the inflation. (Old price: $10. Old tip: $1.50 New price: $20. New tip: $4.00. Price increase: $10 (twice the old price). Tip increase: $2.50 (two and two-thirds times the old price).) But as long as people fail to understand math, your argument will somehow make sense. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/9 "2020-02-15T03:12:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Is it? I still give 15% for satisfactory to good service, and 20% for very good service, and more for exceptional service, and I’ve never gotten any pushback for it. Where have you heard that this is the new norm? I think it depends on where you live. I would say that in the last 10-15 years or so, 20% has become the tip default here in Chicago, at least among the middle-class set. Like [see this Eater article](https://www.eater.com/2018/11/28/18112819/tipping-in-america-guide-restaurants-how-much). > [@](#): > > In 2018, the precise amount you tip is widely understood to be a round 20 percent. Etiquette guide the Emily Post Institute may say between 15 and 20 percent is fine, but to tip well — and who wouldn’t want to tip well (aside from the aforementioned non-tippers) — 20 percent is the gold standard. > > Eater NY chief critic Ryan Sutton says that 20 percent before tax is actually the minimum one should tip at a restaurant, “though for extra good service, 20 percent after tax instead of before tax is nice.” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/10 "2020-02-15T03:22:45Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Because people serving you live in a world of skyrocketing prices too! In what way is the general inflation rate higher than the inflation rate on restaurant food? And how does that justify the new norm in tipping food delivery and food pick up. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/11 "2020-02-15T03:24:51Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > We didn’t used to tip for to-go orders at all, did we? > > I feel like those companies that used tablet/ipad based POS terminals started this trend. Those stupid terminals suggest a tip by default, and you have to specifically go out of your way normally to press no tip. A lot of people are suggestable and do not want to seem like they’re going out of the norm by not tipping, so they started accepting the default tip. > > And boom, something that wasn’t even considered a tipped service now has a tip expectation. What’s next, tip your fast food drive through worker? Why not. Companies can try every which way to get consumers to feel pressured into paying their workers instead of paying them themselves. That is exactly how i see it;. I go to pick up food and they spin the ipad around so i can sign it and before I can sign I have to add a tip or type in -0- because the options are 10% 15% and 20%…to pick up food ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/12 "2020-02-15T03:26:09Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > This argument would work if restaurant food prices (upon which tip amounts are based) were somehow the only ones not rising. ninja’d ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/13 "2020-02-15T03:31:12Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I think it depends on where you live. I would say that in the last 10-15 years or so, 20% has become the tip default here in Chicago, at least among the middle-class set. Like [see this Eater article](https://www.eater.com/2018/11/28/18112819/tipping-in-america-guide-restaurants-how-much). That quote says 20% before tax is default- I think most people tip on the total, including tax. So that makes the actual tip lower than 20%. 20% after tax is for very good service. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/14 "2020-02-15T03:49:32Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > That quote says 20% before tax is default- I think most people tip on the total, including tax. So that makes the actual tip lower than 20%. 20% after tax is for very good service. It’s not really that much a difference. 20% before tax would be an 18% after tax tip in the parts of Chicago that have an 11.5% tax. If your tax rate is closer to 6%, then we’re talking about a 19% tip on the pre-tax total. 20% is pretty much standard here, and we just look at the after-tax line. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/15 "2020-02-15T03:50:11Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > In what way is the general inflation rate higher than the inflation rate on restaurant food? > > And how does that justify the new norm in tipping food delivery and food pick up. …the minimum wage in America is [7.25](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States). 10 years ago the minimum wage was…7.25. Sure: many states have a higher minimum wage than what is Federally mandated. But many don’t. And many restaurants don’t pay the minimum anyway, relying on tips to make up the employee wage to the federally mandated minimum. So wages haven’t kept up with inflation. Does that answer your question? As for justification: they don’t need to justify it to you. Its a tip. Its not mandatory. Pay what you want. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/16 "2020-02-15T07:13:46Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Why is 20% starting to become an expected tip for pick up orders? So are supermarkets going to be next? Buy some ground beef, carrots, onion, celery, tomato sauce, pasta, and a bottle of wine; Sir that will be $20, plus $1.50 tax and a $4.30 tip. Let’s just round that up to $26, shall we? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/17 "2020-02-15T08:39:34Z")
What bothers me more is not the increasing expectation of the tip percentage, but the apparently increasing ubiquity of tipping. When are you NOT expected to tip? I tip restaurant servers – always, unless I have a serious complaint. I don’t move often but when I do, I tip the hardworking sweating movers generously. My former old house needed renovations and in two different cases I hired what turned out to be brothers who were newcomers to Canada and experts at their trade. Their work was exquisitely good. I didn’t think of what I gave them as a “tip” so much as a substantial overpayment, and they deserved it. One pair actually refused to take the extra, and I had to really insist. If I’m too lazy to drive out for takeout, I’ll tip the delivery driver. But that’s about it. The other night I drove out for Chinese takeout and the POS credit card terminal demanded information about the tip amount. WTF? I had absolutely no hesitation in pressing “zero”. The place makes great food but the guy cooking it up is the owner and now that I’m retired probably makes a lot more than I do. Tipping should be for personal service, particularly exceptional service, not for arbitrary business transactions. I see in the pile of mail in front of me a notice that I need to renew my car license plate. Should I tip the person at the DMV, too? ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/18 "2020-02-15T08:51:37Z")
Standard _propina_ in our Mexican and Central American travels was 10%. Our standard table-service tip in the US is 15%, maybe a little more if we intend to ever face that server again. 20% is for extravagantly outstanding service. Drive-throughs, food trucks, counter service get no gratuity except maybe spare coins in a tip jar. Watch out for those POS kiosks. They’re usually about as filthy as restroom diaper-changing platforms. Hand sanitizer is your friend. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/19 "2020-02-15T13:04:57Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > … many restaurants don’t pay the minimum anyway, relying on tips to make up the employee wage … Yes. Tipping is thus a type of scam by which employers avoid the normal requirement to pay their employees a salary by implying that customers should shoulder this duty. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Medlo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hi\_Medlo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Medlo)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960/20 "2020-02-15T13:29:23Z")
Just remember that the customer provides 100% of the server’s pay, whether through tipping or through increased wages via the employer. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-tipping-thread/847960.md?page=2)