# Another unarmed black guy shot by cops -- this time the cop is being prosecuted. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 25, 2014, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511 "2014-09-25T11:17:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/181 "2014-09-26T01:14:36Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yeah, it’s much more comforting to tell them how they should have tried harder not to get shot. I’m sorry, but when did **Smapti** travel to South Carolina to speak to Mr. Jones? Or are you saying that you are Mr. Jones? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/182 "2014-09-26T01:16:30Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > You’re being an asshole because you hate **Smapti** and think _he’s_ an asshole; gotcha. I’m sorry to see that you’ve let your emotions get the better of you here, but now that I understand that you’re deliberately not being rational, I know that I can just ignore the rest of your posts in this thread. Thanks for letting me know. You go right ahead and ignore me. When i care about your opinion, Quarry Boy, i’ll send you a PM. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/183 "2014-09-26T01:21:20Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Awesome, **Marley** , you’ve refuted something that **Smapti** didn’t say. I didn’t say I was refuting something he wrote. I was discussing why people object to particular behaviors. > [@](#): > > Then why are you taking such umbrage with **Smapti** ’s assessment of Mr. Jones’ actions? I think I already spent enough time explaining why he’s wrong. If you want to white knight for him, that’s cool and everything. But you can still read what I wrote instead of asking me to say it all over again. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/184 "2014-09-26T01:26:37Z")
Maybe he thought the guy was grabbing for his uzi or shotgun? Nah, this one seems cut and dry. That cop is fucked and needs to be flogged. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/185 "2014-09-26T01:29:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Or if you want to be like the guy who got shot, follow the cop’s instructions at normal human movement speed. The problem is that the cop asked to see the guy’s license, and the guy moved toward the interior of the vehicle without explaining that he had to retrieve his license. Did he suspect the cop was going to shoot him? Clearly not. I doubt the officer had his gun drawn, so Mr. Jones would have had no reason to feel his safety was threatened. But officers are trained, AFAIK, that every traffic stop is a potential armed confrontation and that they must remain in control of the situation at all times. That’s why they don’t want you exiting your vehicle, for example. Mr. Jones did nothing wrong here, but there is an explanation for why the cop reacted as he did. Those of you who think it’s wrong, that he over-reacted, that his actions were not rational and that his clear panic was unreasonable, you’re not getting any argument from me on those points ( **Smapti** either, near as I can tell). But to suggest that there are not ways that people can behave that will reduce or even minimize the potential for a situation to escalate is ridiculous. By the way, at what point did former Officer Groubert tell Mr. Jones to reach into his vehicle? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/186 "2014-09-26T01:35:02Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Mr. Jones did nothing wrong here, but there is an explanation for why the cop reacted as he did. The reason is that the cop was a reckless fucking moron who was terrible at his job. He could not tell the difference between a guy complying with his request and a man ‘diving headfirst into his car,’ or between a guy complying with _another_ request and someone ‘jumping out,’ possibly with a weapon. That’s the reason this happened. If you comply with all of your extra rules, you might be able to prevent a cop from fucking with you. You will not be able to prevent a badly trained idiot from fucking up because you cannot know how or why those people will fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/187 "2014-09-26T01:38:11Z")
> [@Onyerbike](#): > > That’s absolutely outrageous. Disgusting. If police really do the job for the sake of the community then they should accept a greater risk upon themselves in order to do that job, and not begin shooting citizens on a if/what/then hypothetical. And that there are people both here and on the comments section in the op link saying its the citizens prerogative to act like robotmen in order to avoid getting shot? More disgusting. > > Couldn’t pay me to visit America right now, beautiful country that it is. You don’t understand. Cops are heroes who put themselves at risk every day. Therefore, they should never be expected to put themselves at risk. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/188 "2014-09-26T01:38:48Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > By the way, at what point did former Officer Groubert tell Mr. Jones to reach into his vehicle? At shat point did a routine encounter with a cop become “mother may I”? That’s simply not how people expect or should expect to have to behave. It’s unacceptable. It’s not what our society should be like. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/189 "2014-09-26T01:40:05Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Mr. Jones did nothing wrong here, but there is an explanation for why the cop reacted as he did. Those of you who think it’s wrong, that he over-reacted, that his actions were not rational and that his clear panic was unreasonable, you’re not getting any argument from me on those points ( **Smapti** either, near as I can tell). But to suggest that there are not ways that people can behave that will reduce or even minimize the potential for a situation to escalate is ridiculous. The thing is that we have a long-term problem, both historical and in the present, with cops shooting unarmed black people in America. And we do not have a significant problem, nationally, with unarmed black people behaving in such a way that sparks cops to shoot them. The focus should be on the first, and discussions about the second are only a distraction. > [@](#): > > By the way, at what point did former Officer Groubert tell Mr. Jones to reach into his vehicle? He said to get his ID. Many people keep their DLs in their cars. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/190 "2014-09-26T01:41:10Z")
If there were no dashcam video, does anyone here think that this cop would be prosecuted? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/191 "2014-09-26T01:43:43Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > By the way, at what point did former Officer Groubert tell Mr. Jones to reach into his vehicle? > [@Acsenray](#): > > At shat point did a routine encounter with a cop become “mother may I”? That’s simply not how people expect or should expect to have to behave. It’s unacceptable. It’s not what our society should be like. He asked for his license. This cop was trusted with a weapon and given the authority to kill people, and he was too stupid to realize people sometimes don’t have their wallets in their pants. Somehow I think you want this to be a defense for his actions. It isn’t one. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If there were no dashcam video, does anyone here think that this cop would be prosecuted? Of course not. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/192 "2014-09-26T01:44:39Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Mr. Jones did nothing wrong here, but there is an explanation for why the cop reacted as he did. Those of you who think it’s wrong, that he over-reacted, that his actions were not rational and that his clear panic was unreasonable, you’re not getting any argument from me on those points ( **Smapti** either, near as I can tell). But to suggest that there are not ways that people can behave that will reduce or even minimize the potential for a situation to escalate is ridiculous. You’re of course correct, and I for one am writing a nice letter to Mr. Jones, explaining the lively debate that has ensued here and passing along your and **Smapti’s** helpful advice, which, as we now know, no one ever conceived of before you guys came along. I’m thinking of closing with “But of course you’ve learned YOUR lesson, haven’t you?” Or is that maybe too much? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/193 "2014-09-26T01:47:06Z")
Jesus christ, this is the country we live in now. There was an explanation. Thank god. I mean, a dude is almost dead because a cop told him to do something, and then he did it, so the cop tried to kill him, but it’s such a fucking relief that somebody thinks he had a reason. I thought maybe that ant fungus had gotten into his brain and made him do it, and I just would not have been able to deal with that. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/194 "2014-09-26T01:53:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He asked for his license. This cop was trusted with a weapon and given the authority to kill people, and he was too stupid to realize people sometimes don’t have their wallets in their pants. Somehow I think you want this to be a defense for his actions. It isn’t one. Is this in response to what I said? If so, I’m confused. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/195 "2014-09-26T01:54:02Z")
People should not have to treat encounters with the police in the same way they treat an encounter with dangerous wildlife. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/196 "2014-09-26T01:59:17Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > People should not have to treat encounters with the police in the same way they treat an encounter with dangerous wildlife. True. For one thing, dangerous wildlife, so far as I know, don’t carry firearms. Well, there’s that whole “arm bears” thing, but I don’t think anyone actually has _done_ that. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/197 "2014-09-26T02:02:32Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Is this in response to what I said? If so, I’m confused. It’s in response to **Snowboarder Bo** , but I was trying to add to what you said. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/198 "2014-09-26T02:03:38Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > True. For one thing, dangerous wildlife, so far as I know, don’t carry firearms. Well, there’s that whole “arm bears” thing, but I don’t think anyone actually has _done_ that. You really need to understand your rights, especially with respect to your arms. You have a right to [bare arms](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/l/larry-the-cable-guy/album-the-right-to-bare-arms.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.uulyrics.com/music/larry-the-cable-guy/song-nascar/&h=224&w=225&tbnid=Nu-O4Nlq4EeAIM:&zoom=1&tbnh=160&tbnw=160&usg=__VVGex_ZKadchU4F1BEuhV-WTQKI=&docid=VAJQndIf-JkvGM&itg=1&ved=0CG0Qyjc&ei=DMkkVMnbEdD2yQStr4DgAg). I’d go easy on the [bear arms](https://www.google.com/search?q=bear+arms+picture&biw=1920&bih=969&tbm=isch&imgil=IqjA8WSqh14ArM%253A%253BDFtANzkQ_yWLWM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.animallols.com%25252Frandom-animals%25252Fbear-arms%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=IqjA8WSqh14ArM%253A%252CDFtANzkQ_yWLWM%252C_&usg=__M93Hi19X-yNtEpkY8PtKsTrj6SI%3D&ved=0CDcQyjc&ei=V8kkVN-gL4aeyQTUrIGQAw#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=IqjA8WSqh14ArM%253A%3BDFtANzkQ_yWLWM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.animallols.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2014%252F01%252FBear-Arms.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.animallols.com%252Frandom-animals%252Fbear-arms%252F%3B600%3B620), however. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/199 "2014-09-26T02:21:45Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > By the way, at what point did former Officer Groubert tell Mr. Jones to reach into his vehicle? Jones, logically, had to reach into SOMETHING. If the license was not in his hand, it had to be somewhere he would have to put his hand. Literally anywhere Jones could have reached to get his license is a place he could have had a weapon, theoretically. If he’d gone to his back pocket, there could be a gun there. If Groubert was going to start shooting the instant Jones reached somehere a weapon could theoretically have been, then **Jones was doomed to be shot by virtue of Groubert effectively ordering him tor each somewhere.** That is the only way he could retrieve his license, after all, unless he had telekinetic powers. It’s also worth noting that if you watch the video carefully, the cop freaks out and orders Jones “Get outta yer car,” and Jones does indeed get out and turn towards the officer - and only then does Groubert start shooting. [QUOTE=iiiandyiii] If there were no dashcam video, does anyone here think that this cop would be prosecuted? [/QUOTE] Not a chance in hell, no. Had there been no film, the investigation would have gone on weeks and it would have been a finding of justifiable use of force. As it is he’ll get off very light; the heavy initial charge won’t stick. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/200 "2014-09-26T02:39:43Z")
Not to mention that there was no reason for the officer to think Mr Jones was violent. He hadn’t been speeding or driving erratically. He wasn’t being stopped on a warrant. There was no Amber alert on his car. He simply didn’t have his seatbelt on in a parking lot. Why would the officer assume he was violent or dangerous? We expect our LO to use some for of judgement! The guy was stopped for a seatbelt violation. Was asked to get his ID. Turned and complied. There is nothing mitigating in this scenario to give the cop a reason to feel threatened. Honestly, I hope it turns out the cop’s got a brain tumor or something to explain such paranoid, erratic behavior. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511.md?page=11)