# Another unarmed black guy shot by cops -- this time the cop is being prosecuted. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 25, 2014, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511 "2014-09-25T11:17:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/201 "2014-09-26T02:49:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Not a chance in hell, no. Had there been no film, the investigation would have gone on weeks and it would have been a finding of justifiable use of force. As it is he’ll get off very light; the heavy initial charge won’t stick. damn. I don’t know how true\* this is, but it’s sure rotten we all think it is. \*_at least_ mostly true ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/202 "2014-09-26T03:02:14Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Honestly, I hope it turns out the cop’s got a brain tumor or something to explain such paranoid, erratic behavior. I have a one-of-the-two type theory that I’d like to posit, though neither of my notions is as romantic as a rogue glioblastoma. According to CNN, this is not the first time Officer Groubert has fired his weapon in the line of duty: “He was lauded the previous time: His department gave him a medal of valor for an incident in which he and another trooper shot and injured a man who had shot at them in 2012 …” - CNN My theory is either that he suffers from PTSD as a result of the previous shooting and he freaked out (actually, kind of likely now that I think of it) - or he was thinking, “hello Trooper of the Year, 2014.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/203 "2014-09-26T03:02:56Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > damn. I don’t know how true\* this is, but it’s sure rotten we all think it is. > > \*_at least_ mostly true Even video footage doesn’t always get the job done. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/204 "2014-09-26T03:51:40Z")
Okay, I admit I skipped a few pages, but as one of the few people on this board who might actually get called for this jury, theoretically - you know what? Fuck all of you assholes for assuming that the white Southerners of Columbia, SC are totally cool with this. I mean, I did have to step away from the lynching to browse the SDMB tonight (luckily the burning crosses provide plenty of light) and I admit that flooding the comment boards of the local papers and news stations does take up a lot of my time, but the REST of my free time today has been spent talking about this case to death everywhere I go, as there is no escaping it, and I assure you, even at the old folks home where one can expect a certain level of casual racism everybody wants this cop’s liver for dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/205 "2014-09-26T04:02:56Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Okay, I admit I skipped a few pages, but as one of the few people on this board who might actually get called for this jury, theoretically - you know what? Fuck all of you assholes for assuming that the white Southerners of Columbia, SC are totally cool with this. I mean, I did have to step away from the lynching to browse the SDMB tonight (luckily the burning crosses provide plenty of light) and I admit that flooding the comment boards of the local papers and news stations does take up a lot of my time, but the REST of my free time today has been spent talking about this case to death everywhere I go, as there is no escaping it, and I assure you, even at the old folks home where one can expect a certain level of casual racism everybody wants this cop’s liver for dinner. Apparently the cop was not the only one in S.C. with a hair trigger. Jesus I have no idea who or what the fuck you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/206 "2014-09-26T05:00:24Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Jones, logically, had to reach into SOMETHING. If the license was not in his hand, it had to be somewhere he would have to put his hand. > > Literally anywhere Jones could have reached to get his license is a place he could have had a weapon, theoretically. If he’d gone to his back pocket, there could be a gun there. If Groubert was going to start shooting the instant Jones reached somehere a weapon could theoretically have been, then **Jones was doomed to be shot by virtue of Groubert effectively ordering him tor each somewhere.** That is the only way he could retrieve his license, after all, unless he had telekinetic powers. > > It’s also worth noting that if you watch the video carefully, the cop freaks out and orders Jones “Get outta yer car,” and Jones does indeed get out and turn towards the officer - and only then does Groubert start shooting. I agree that the officer’s behavior and reactions are whack. He’s obviously a shitty cop. Would you agree that Mr. Jones did not respond to the demand for his license by saying “ok, it’s in my truck”? > [@RickJay](#): > > Not a chance in hell, no. Had there been no film, the investigation would have gone on weeks and it would have been a finding of justifiable use of force. As it is he’ll get off very light; the heavy initial charge won’t stick. Aye, without the dash cam video this would have been months of investigation resulting in no charges and a return to duty. A civil suit in that reality would likely be settled for just a few hundred thousand dollars and part of the settlement would be a lock on discussing the case or the settlement. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/207 "2014-09-26T05:15:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Even video footage doesn’t always get the job done. Indeed. _cough_ Rodney King _cough_. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/208 "2014-09-26T09:18:43Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > At shat point did a routine encounter with a cop become “mother may I”? That’s simply not how people expect or should expect to have to behave. It’s unacceptable. It’s not what our society should be like. > [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > People should not have to treat encounters with the police in the same way they treat an encounter with dangerous wildlife. We shouldn’t _have_ to. But we _do_, and the fact that this thread exists proves it. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/209 "2014-09-26T09:51:57Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > My theory is either that he suffers from PTSD as a result of the previous shooting and he freaked out (actually, kind of likely now that I think of it) I’m buying this argument. I generally agree with the “Cops as Dangerous Animals” concept, however in this case it’s hard to ask someone to act cautiously. Jones got out of his truck and suddenly there’s a cop asking him for ID, all casual like. There’s nothing there to force the idea of caution and very little time for Jones to switch gears from “What kind of chips should I buy” to “I better be on my best behavior for this cop.” When I was stopped for an expired inspection as I was parking my car, I got out, like I always do after parking my car. The cop, who I hadn’t really noticed before, put on his Cop Voice and told me to Get Back In The Vehicle. That set the expectation of an Official Traffic Stop, not just a casual conversation. It isn’t just the fact that it is an official stop, it’s the tone of the conversation, he’s all business, I better be too. Officer Groubert didn’t do that, he never gave Jones the opportunity to understand that this was Serious Business, even though it was. Groubert goes from a bland “Can I see your ID?” to “You’re trying to kill me!” in a half second. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/210 "2014-09-26T11:20:11Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Okay, I admit I skipped a few pages, but as one of the few people on this board who might actually get called for this jury, theoretically - you know what? Fuck all of you assholes for assuming that the white Southerners of Columbia, SC are totally cool with this. I mean, I did have to step away from the lynching to browse the SDMB tonight (luckily the burning crosses provide plenty of light) and I admit that flooding the comment boards of the local papers and news stations does take up a lot of my time, but the REST of my free time today has been spent talking about this case to death everywhere I go, as there is no escaping it, and I assure you, even at the old folks home where one can expect a certain level of casual racism everybody wants this cop’s liver for dinner. I must have missed those posts. Most of the thread is about the cops actions. FWIW, my husband grew up outside of Columbia and we’re both impressed that the Columbia PD got this one right and fired and charged this cop. Not impressed because “southerners are racist and sux, amirite”, but because other PD don’t seem to do it right! ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/211 "2014-09-26T11:54:51Z")
That was painful to watch. That’s a perfect example of why putting up a little resistance with a police officer isn’t always such a bad idea. Perhaps asking the police officer why he needed to see his ID (“What seems to be the problem, officer?”) would have slowed _both_ of them down. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/212 "2014-09-26T11:56:15Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Fuck all of you assholes for assuming that the white Southerners of Columbia, SC are totally cool with this. Where the fuck did you read that? Who assumed that? Which posts? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/213 "2014-09-26T11:59:52Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Where the fuck did you read that? Who assumed that? Which posts? Here; > [@Stuffy](#): > > The jury will be made up of southern white people. This is probably the best _we_ can hope for. And here; > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The defense attorney will be the one _trying_ to get an all-white jury. And here; > [@Stuffy](#): > > Want to put money on it? This shit happens nearly daily. When white people see black men they see niggers, potential threats, not people. If this clown serves more than a year I will eat my underwear. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/214 "2014-09-26T12:25:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Here; > > And here; > > And here; None of those say anything whatsoever about South Carolina or even the south. Got relevance? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/215 "2014-09-26T12:41:10Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > None of those say anything whatsoever about South Carolina or even the south. > > Got relevance? Plus those few posts are hardly what all of us in this thread are saying. Most of the thread has little to do with southern white’s attitudes. Pretty big paintbrush to have used, even if you can dig up a post or two. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/216 "2014-09-26T13:09:01Z")
I saw this video before it was titled “cop shoots black dude over seat belt” or whatever. It was ambiguously titled as “cop shooting” or something. As I’m watching the video, based on the reaction of the victim, I thought I was going to see the cop get shot. So I can see why the cop would think he’s under threat. The guy freezes up like a deer in the headlights, pauses for a few seconds, and then suddenly takes an action quickly and with purpose. Since most men carry their license in their pockets, the expectation is that he’s going to reach into his pocket. So the guy is bucking expectations by reaching back into his vehicle. And he did so suddenly, and quickly. Cops always have the possibility of suddenly being shot at in the back of their minds. You try to make your actions as non-threatning as possible so that everyone is comfortable and there’s less room for misunderstanding. So this guy 1. freezes up and refuses to acknowledge the officer for a few seconds 2. suddenly moves towards a place that’s hidden from the cop 3. Bucks expectations of what a cop would expect him to do if he was following his orders, with no verbal or other communication yet That would make me extremely nervous as a cop, and as I said, watching the video before knowing what it was, I was expecting for there to be a shootout. Of course there’s still some bias in that - obviously no one is going to post a routine stop to youtube where nothing goes wrong, so the fact that I expected a shootout doesn’t mean the cop had the same reason to expect a shootout. But I can say I understand that the actions looked very threatning. The combination of freezing up and then suddenly taking determined action is a very common pattern when someone feels like they’re in deep shit and is deciding whether to fight or flight. Or, to look at it the other way: If this guy meant to do the cop harm, because had a warrant or whatever, what would it look like? It’d pretty much look like this. The cop was still wrong, he should’ve taken less serious actions than shooting the guy, but it’s not really mysterious that he’s nervous. I’m normally very anti-twitchy-cops, but this board is so fucking overboard into circle jerking that everyone here just assumes the worst about the cop no matter what. And I’m not saying it because the victim is a black guy. I’m white, I have no criminal record at all, and I have as little reason to fear cops as anyone. And yet every time I’m pulled over, I turn the car’s internal light on, stick my hands high up on the wheel, and announce every action I’m about to take, while doing so slowly and deliberately. This is common fucking sense in a situation where someone has lethal power and feels that their life may be at stake. I don’t take these actions because I’m worried we live in a police state, I take these actions because I know the guy standing outside my car is a nervous human being in a potentially dangerous situation and it’s best for everyone if we both make some effort to be non-threatning to each other. You idiots all sound like you’d deliberately quickly reach into your glove box unannounced just to say “I can do whatever the fuck I want, and to say anything otherwise is blaming the victim” Both of these things can be true: the cop was too trigger happy and acted rashly, and the victim handled the situation very poorly and acted in a manner that could legitimately be interpreted as suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/217 "2014-09-26T13:21:28Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Bit harder when there’s video and audio, isn’t it? Claiming that the unarmed victim made a threatening gesture, was holding what looked like a gun, or screamed “eat lead, copper!” becomes a tough sell. > > I’ll assume that the cop’s defenders in this case will blame the guy for getting out of his car, thus creating a dangerous situation. If he’d only stayed seated, he wouldn’t be in this mess! (Maybe. Or maybe the wounds would’ve been fatal.) If one watches the video closely, one will see that the driver doesn’t just “lean” back into the car as has been claimed. His body language is indicative that he is reaching for a weapon. The problem with armchair quarterbacking a situation like this is that most people don’t realize that if the cop waits to see whether the driver comes out with a gun or not, he’s probably gonna get shot. I predict that the cop will stay fired but he probably won’t be convicted. We’ll just have to see what happens in the courts. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/218 "2014-09-26T13:22:10Z")
Yeah, he just made a legitimate rash interpretation of the guy’s unannounced reaching into the passenger compartment for something after the cop told him to produce something. It must be nice not to be an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/219 "2014-09-26T13:25:50Z")
1. The expectation is that the guy probably has his license in his pocket, as most men do. You shouldn’t buck expectations without communication during a high tension, potentially deadly situation. 2. The guy doesn’t casually immediately start complying with the officer. He freezes up, and then suddenly commits the act at hastened speed. That’s exactly the sort of reaction you see in people who are in fight or flight sort of moments. 3. If the guy were indeed intending the cop harm for whatever reason, wouldn’t it look exactly how it looks in the video? If not, how would it be different? If the video had instead ended with the guy pulling out a gun and shooting the cop, would you shout “that’s not possible!”? Is there some reason that’s not a plausible ending? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/220 "2014-09-26T13:32:45Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > None of those say anything whatsoever about South Carolina or even the south. > > Got relevance? Cripes, you’re a moron. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511.md?page=12)