# Another unarmed black guy shot by cops -- this time the cop is being prosecuted. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 25, 2014, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511 "2014-09-25T11:17:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/401 "2014-09-28T19:35:02Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > The cop didn’t suddenly pull out his gun and shoot the guy when he got out of his car. Yes, actually he did. Jones was already out of his car when the cop car pulled up. Jones was out of the car when the police officer told him to get his license. Jones reached into the car to get his license, and when yelled at to get out of the car, Jones did. And was fired at four times. [QUOTE=SenorBeef] The misunderstanding is that the cop clearly thought the guy was going for a weapon. Obviously, it was a huge error in judgment and is in no way a justification for the cop firing, which was a HUGE ERROR BY ANY STANDARD, but the cop misread the guy’s intentions, and hence, a misunderstanding. [/QUOTE] Agree that it was a huge error in judgment by the cop. and a HUGE ERROR BY ANY STANDARD. The ‘misunderstanding’ was completely by the cop. Jones followed every request by the cop and it very nearly killed him (or could have killed or injured someone else). Now, what do we do about it. In the larger sense? Not this incident. I think that there should be better screening for police officers. And get away from the shoot first and ask questions later that is becoming more common. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/402 "2014-09-28T20:00:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > No, I’m not. > > I’m saying that his misaction is understandable. He shot at the guy four times for following his orders. That’s understandable? Remind me to never knock on your door to borrow a cup of sugar. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/403 "2014-09-28T20:06:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I understand _why_ he reacted the way he did. > > That doesn’t mean his actions are justified or that he shouldn’t be prosecuted for them. As before, your “understanding” isn’t particularly useful because your perception is so horribly fucked up. I mean, you’ve said that you would give a cop a blowjob if he demanded one of you. So, you seem particularly disposed to perceive things from an extraordinarily cop-favoring perspective. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/404 "2014-09-28T20:22:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I understand _why_ he reacted the way he did. Why did he continue to the pull the trigger multiple times as the man was backing away, hands in the air? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/405 "2014-09-28T20:28:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why did he continue to the pull the trigger multiple times as the man was backing away, hands in the air? You tell me. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/406 "2014-09-28T20:29:21Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > As before, your “understanding” isn’t particularly useful because your perception is so horribly fucked up. I mean, you’ve said that you would give a cop a blowjob if he demanded one of you. I’d do lots of things if the alternative was being shot and killed. Would you not? Is your sexual dignity worth your life? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/407 "2014-09-28T20:32:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’d do lots of things if the alternative was being shot and killed. Would you not? Is your sexual dignity worth your life? No, but if you got shot anyway, no one will sit here and post that if you’d only have sucked him better and faster you’d be ok. ---
**Author:** ![Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mentor_and_Liar)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/408 "2014-09-28T20:58:16Z")
Before I begin, I would like to state my respect for our brave men and women in tool belts and express my genuine and heartfelt gratitude for their efforts in keeping our houses safe and dry. A strong roof is the best defense Shingle Fi! > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Before I continue, I would like to state that nothing I say below should be interpreted to justify or defend the actions of the police officer in this shooting. This cop was a paranoid lunatic who shot an unarmed man who did nothing wrong.This is a terribly faulty analysis. > > Let’s say I’m a roofer, being a roofer is dangerous, more dangerous than being a cop, but still statistically not all that dangerous. Death rate is 40/100000 workers per year. Let’s say you work 200 days on a roof per year, that’s one death per 500,000 jobs. > > That doesn’t mean I don’t take precautions, like setting up proper ladders, harnesses, and other safety gear. I avoid working in the rain, and take special precautions for dangerous jobs. If a particular action appears dangerous, I don’t do it, or I use my experience to find a safe way to do it. > > It’s the same with a cop, you can’t ask them to ignore a perceived risk because their chances of death are “low”. One of the reasons death rates are low is that they don’t ignore risks, they identify and account for them. In all dangerous lines of work, people assess risk and change their behavior accordingly to reduce that risk. In police work, “reducing risk” also tends to put others at risk, so it’s by necessity a balancing act. I am not dismissing that there is actual risk involved in the profession of policing (or roofing) I expressed the risk as “one in…” not “zero in…”. Neither am I asking that anyone ignore the _actual_ risk. _Perceived_ risk on the other hand is highly problematic if the perception is wildly inaccurate. I’m going to go out on a limb (with proper precaution and safety equipment) and say that it would be a poor roofer who perceived every roofing job to be so dangerous that he perfunctorily knocks each house down before he begins the job. That’s just a guess though, I’m not a roofer. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/409 "2014-09-28T21:17:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why did he continue to the pull the trigger multiple times as the man was backing away, hands in the air? Do you think it’s because he wanted to kill a black man, and this one would do? Or do you think it was because he thought he was under attack (whether it was reasonable to think so or not). Ever seen someone completely misread a situation? That’s what happened here, except dialed up to 11. Seriously fucking up in a way that causes great physical harm to someone, and puts a lot of other people in danger, is different from “attempted second degree murder” or whatever goofy suggestion it was that someone posted on the first page. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/410 "2014-09-28T21:24:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You tell me. You’re the one claiming to understand it, not me. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/411 "2014-09-28T21:29:02Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Do you think it’s because he wanted to kill a black man, and this one would do? Or do you think it was because he thought he was under attack (whether it was reasonable to think so or not). Ever seen someone completely misread a situation? That’s what happened here, except dialed up to 11. The contention here is that he might’ve “misread” the situation and perceived Jones as more of a threat because Jones is black. There’s a lot of evidence that people do behave that way, although it’s almost impossible to prove that that’s what happened here. > [@](#): > > Seriously fucking up in a way that causes great physical harm to someone, and puts a lot of other people in danger, is different from “attempted second degree murder” or whatever goofy suggestion it was that someone posted on the first page. I’d have to go back to page one to see what was being proposed, but Groubert did try to kill Jones. He failed, but that was for lack of skill, not effort. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/412 "2014-09-28T21:31:54Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Do you think it’s because he wanted to kill a black man, and this one would do? No idea. > [@](#): > > Or do you think it was because he thought he was under attack (whether it was reasonable to think so or not). There’s no way someone could reasonably think they’re under attack by someone who is backing away with hands in the air. If he honestly thought he was under attack, then he is mentally deficient/deranged. > [@](#): > > Seriously fucking up in a way that causes great physical harm to someone, and puts a lot of other people in danger, is different from “attempted second degree murder” or whatever goofy suggestion it was that someone posted on the first page. It depends. If there’s no motive, then the aggravated assault charge is probably appropriate. If the investigators determine this guy had a motive – for example, the desire to shoot someone (like some sort of Rambo/Zimmermanesque desire to shoot/kill ‘bad guys’), the desire to kill someone, or the desire to hurt a black person, then attempted murder seems appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/413 "2014-09-28T21:39:05Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > No, but if you got shot anyway, no one will sit here and post that if you’d only have sucked him better and faster you’d be ok. And your pretended empathy for the “innocent” victims of the evil police is thus laid bare. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/414 "2014-09-28T22:26:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And your pretended empathy for the “innocent” victims of the evil police is thus laid bare. What? So if I say I wouldn’t criticize the victim of police abuse for not doing a better job avoiding mistreatment I’m unsympathetic to the plight of the victim? I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/415 "2014-09-28T22:58:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’d do lots of things if the alternative was being shot and killed. Would you not? Is your sexual dignity worth your life? My dignity is worth a hell of a lot. I’m going to have to say I’d likely pass. I’d definitely not be eager to volunteer. YFMV. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/416 "2014-09-28T23:31:53Z")
That video is just WTF! That “cop” should see jail time. He should be thrown out of the police department and never allowed to own/use a gun again. If I was standing there watching that happen, I would honestly think the cop was an impostor and try to take him out. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/417 "2014-09-28T23:36:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The contention here is that he might’ve “misread” the situation and perceived Jones as more of a threat because Jones is black. There’s a lot of evidence that people do behave that way, although it’s almost impossible to prove that that’s what happened here. > > I’d have to go back to page one to see what was being proposed, but Groubert did try to kill Jones. He failed, but that was for lack of skill, not effort. Ok, I can agree with you on the first point. There’s a pretty good chance that he felt threatened by Jones just because he was black. We can prove that this is a pretty common occurrence just by observing that blacks are more likely to be assaulted by police than other races are, but proving an individual case is a lot harder. The second point is just silly, but I haven’t actually seen anyone argue that the charges are too soft for a few pages in this discussion, so I probably shouldn’t have mentioned it in the first place. I believe the aggravated assault charge is totally appropriate. I might revisit the argument if anyone brings it up again. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/418 "2014-09-28T23:45:50Z")
[Trooper on shooting: ‘He Kept Coming Towards Me’](http://www.wltx.com/story/news/local/2014/09/26/sean-groubert-gives-his-account-of-shooting-levar-jones/16295527/) Another case where the cop claims that the victim ‘charged’ him. With his hands up and surrendering. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/419 "2014-09-28T23:49:09Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > [Trooper on shooting: ‘He Kept Coming Towards Me’](http://www.wltx.com/story/news/local/2014/09/26/sean-groubert-gives-his-account-of-shooting-levar-jones/16295527/) > > Another case where the cop claims that the victim ‘charged’ him. With his hands up and surrendering. From the article (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > “I pulled him over for a seat belt violation,” Groubert can be heard saying on the tape. “Before I could event get out of my car he **jumped out** , **stared at me** , and as I jumped out of my car and identified myself, as I approached him, he jumped head-first back into his car.” He perceived the victim as a threat before the whole interaction began. The simple act of getting out of his car spooked the officer. It was over, in the officer’s mind, before it began. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/420 "2014-09-29T00:01:11Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > [Trooper on shooting: ‘He Kept Coming Towards Me’](http://www.wltx.com/story/news/local/2014/09/26/sean-groubert-gives-his-account-of-shooting-levar-jones/16295527/) > > Another case where the cop claims that the victim ‘charged’ him. With his hands up and surrendering. Wow, that’s just about the most lame case of attempted ass-covering I’ve ever heard of. Of course, without the dash cam evidence, I have little doubt that the cop’s lies (there is no other appropriate term, in my view) would have been accepted as fact. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511.md?page=22)