# Another unarmed black guy shot by cops -- this time the cop is being prosecuted. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 25, 2014, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511 "2014-09-25T11:17:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/61 "2014-09-25T15:59:52Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > “Cunt” and “twat” are also non-gender-specific insluts here… That is an excellent typo! > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > My wallet is so fat it throws my spine off to sit on it in the car. My wallet so fat, it jumped into the air and got stuck. When it’s on the beach, it’s the only wallet that gets a tan. When it sits around the house, it really sits around the house. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/62 "2014-09-25T16:00:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “My wallet is in the car - I’m going to reach in and grab it now.” > > It wouldn’t have been, but I’m trying to give advice here on how to avoid being shot by an overreacting cop, not advice on how to shoot an honest cop. > > He saw the man he had just asked for a license quickly turn around and reach into his car, where he couldn’t see his hands, for an unseen object. So why did he shoot the guy after the guy had his hands up and was backing away? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/63 "2014-09-25T16:01:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Because, as this video demonstrates, not every cop is a “trained professional”. > > Just because you think a given threat shouldn’t exist doesn’t mean you should act as if it doesn’t. What makes you think this will help if the cop is a poorly trained numbskull? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/64 "2014-09-25T16:02:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So why did he shoot the guy after the guy had his hands up and was backing away? Because he was an idiot who overreacted and fired when he shouldn’t have fired. Never assume that just because someone has a badge and a uniform that they’re a level-headed professional who won’t mistake an innocuous act for a sign of aggression. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/65 "2014-09-25T16:04:06Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > What makes you think this will help if the cop is a poorly trained numbskull? Wait, are you saying the cop _wasn’t_ a poorly trained numbskull? Or are you saying that it’s a bad idea to act cautiously around people who have guns and the presumed authority to use them? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/66 "2014-09-25T16:04:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Because he was an idiot who overreacted and fired when he shouldn’t have fired. Never assume that just because someone has a badge and a uniform that they’re a level-headed professional who won’t mistake an innocuous act for a sign of aggression. There’s no reason to believe that the actions you’ve suggested would have saved this man from being shot by such an “idiot”. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/67 "2014-09-25T16:05:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s no reason to believe that the actions you’ve suggested would have saved this man from being shot by such an “idiot”. So the take-away lesson here is “The cops will shoot you no matter what, so it’s pointless to even try not getting shot”. Is that right? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/68 "2014-09-25T16:05:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Wait, are you saying the cop _wasn’t_ a poorly trained numbskull? > > Or are you saying that it’s a bad idea to act cautiously around people who have guns and the presumed authority to use them? He was acting cautiously. There was nothing reckless about any of his actions or movements. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/69 "2014-09-25T16:06:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So the take-away lesson here is “The cops will shoot you no matter what, so it’s pointless to even try not getting shot”. > > Is that right? In this case, there’s nothing this man did that could reasonably inspire someone to shoot him. So in this case, I have no reason to believe that any different behavior would have saved him. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/70 "2014-09-25T16:07:07Z")
> [@Stuffy](#): > > The jury will be made up of southern white people. This is probably the best _we_ can hope for. Then the defense attorney who will be part of picking the jury would be a complete idiot. What makes you think the jury will be made up entirely of ‘southern white people’?? Nearly 30 % of the residents are listed as ‘black’, and contrary to what seems to be popular belief black people are allowed on juries in the south. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/71 "2014-09-25T16:07:08Z")
The defense attorney will be the one _trying_ to get an all-white jury. > [@Marley23](#): > > I had no idea! Why do we need so many fucking rules to keep a trained professional from shooting you? Dude, admitting that a police officer might kind-of-sort-of-by-implication be responsible for something that went wrong is a Big Deal for **Smapti**. Baby steps. When I saw he’d posted in this thread I was 96% certain he was going to say the victim was at fault because he didn’t have his ID on a lanyard where a cop could see it at all times. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/72 "2014-09-25T16:07:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He was acting cautiously. There was nothing reckless about any of his actions or movements. Even the ACLU will tell you that when talking to a police officer, you should always move slowly and tell the officer exactly what you’re doing if you have to reach for something, open a glove box, etc. This guy, when asked for his ID, immediately turned around and quickly reached into his car. This does not justify shooting him, but it shows what can potentially happen when you don’t take appropriate cautions. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/73 "2014-09-25T16:09:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In this case, there’s nothing this man did that could reasonably inspire someone to shoot him. So in this case, I have no reason to believe that any different behavior would have saved him. The officer will likely claim that he began shooting because he saw the man quickly reach into his car for an object he couldn’t see and believed that he might be going for a gun. That is an understandable train of thought. It’s not a justified one, but I doubt the officer would have just started shooting for no reason whatsoever, regardless of the man’s actions. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/74 "2014-09-25T16:13:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Wait, are you saying the cop _wasn’t_ a poorly trained numbskull? > > Or are you saying that it’s a bad idea to act cautiously around people who have guns and the presumed authority to use them? I’m saying that I doubt your tip would actually help. The problem is with the cop, and if the cop is a moron, I doubt it makes a difference. So perhaps you can dispense with the advice? > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Dude, admitting that a police officer might kind-of-sort-of-by-implication be responsible for something that went wrong is a Big Deal for **Smapti**. Baby steps. That’s true. Maybe I’m expecting too much here. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/75 "2014-09-25T16:14:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The officer will likely claim that he began shooting because he saw the man quickly reach into his car for an object he couldn’t see and believed that he might be going for a gun. That is an understandable train of thought. It’s not a justified one, but I doubt the officer would have just started shooting for no reason whatsoever, regardless of the man’s actions. Considering that the officer continued shooting while the man had his arms up and was backing (and falling) away, I don’t think this is a credible explanation. Something sparked the shooting, but I see no reason why “turning and reaching into a car for an ID” would be any more likely to spark a shooting than “turning and reaching into a car for an ID while saying ‘I’m turning and reaching for the ID’”, especially considering how quickly the officer started firing. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/76 "2014-09-25T16:14:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > See, this is why, when speaking to a police officer, you _always_ move slowly and state out loud exactly what you’re doing with your hands. “Have a nice evening, sir.” I AM MAKING A SIMULATED MASTURBATION OF A PENIS GESTURE WITH MY RIGHT HAND AT YOUR RETREATING BACK… NOW. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/77 "2014-09-25T16:15:33Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Then the defense attorney who will be part of picking the jury would be a complete idiot. What makes you think the jury will be made up entirely of ‘southern white people’?? Nearly 30 % of the residents are listed as ‘black’, and contrary to what seems to be popular belief black people are allowed on juries in the south. Want to put money on it? This shit happens nearly daily. When white people see black men they see niggers, potential threats, not people. If this clown serves more than a year I will eat my underwear. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/78 "2014-09-25T16:16:56Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > “Have a nice evening, sir.” > > I AM MAKING A SIMULATED MASTURBATION OF A PENIS GESTURE WITH MY RIGHT HAND AT YOUR RETREATING BACK… NOW. …Well, _now_ you’ve committed a lewd act in public. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/79 "2014-09-25T16:18:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The officer will likely claim that he began shooting because he saw the man quickly reach into his car for an object he couldn’t see and believed that he might be going for a gun. That is an understandable train of thought. It’s not a justified one, but I doubt the officer would have just started shooting for no reason whatsoever, regardless of the man’s actions. I watched the video now several times, and here is my take fwiw. Even if the cop DID think that the guy was reaching for a gun his actions are unjustified. What I saw was a complete panic reaction with panic fire shooting that basically missed a guy from what, maybe 3-4 yards distance when he had the drop on the guy? Basically, if he really did think the guy was reaching for a gun (I concede that it could have been possible), simply drawing his weapon and shouting FREEZE would have been a more rational (and safer) course of action. Then if the guy turned around with a weapon the cop would already have been in a position to place aimed fire into the suspect. I mean, if the guy actually had a gun that cop would be dead, since his panic fire accomplished not much of anything even from such a short range. No matter how you slice this, that cop was in the wrong and his reaction was ridiculous and unprofessional…and unlike in the other thread where training was discussed, this IS something that cop should have been trained on to a degree that such a reaction as demonstrated in the video is completely and totally unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/80 "2014-09-25T16:19:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Considering that the officer continued shooting while the man had his arms up and was backing (and falling) away, I don’t think this is a credible explanation. Something sparked the shooting, but I see no reason why “turning and reaching into a car for an ID” would be any more likely to spark a shooting than “turning and reaching into a car for an ID while saying ‘I’m turning and reaching for the ID’”, especially considering how quickly the officer started firing. Short of reading the officer’s mind it is impossible to determine why he shot, but I doubt he got out of bed that morning and said to himself “Today I’m going to shoot a law-abiding black person”. He will likely claim he continued to shoot because adrenaline had taken over and he interpreted the man’s further movements as an attempt to flee. It will be up to a jury to decide what they make of such a claim. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511.md?page=5)