# Another unarmed black guy shot by cops -- this time the cop is being prosecuted. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 25, 2014, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511 "2014-09-25T11:17:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/81 "2014-09-25T16:19:44Z")
> [@Stuffy](#): > > Want to put money on it? This shit happens nearly daily. When white people see black men they see niggers, potential threats, not people. If this clown serves more than a year I will eat my underwear. I’ll certainly be willing to bet that it won’t be an all white jury, which is what you claimed (did you notice that the judge in the CNN clip that set bail was black btw?). Once the jury is made up we can see what it is and one of us can come back to the thread and eat some crow. Deal? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/82 "2014-09-25T16:20:27Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I watched the video now several times, and here is my take fwiw. Even if the cop DID think that the guy was reaching for a gun his actions are unjustified. What I saw was a complete panic reaction with panic fire shooting that basically missed a guy from what, maybe 3-4 yards distance when he had the drop on the guy? Basically, if he really did think the guy was reaching for a gun (I concede that it could have been possible), simply drawing his weapon and shouting FREEZE would have been a more rational (and safer) course of action. Then if the guy turned around with a weapon the cop would already have been in a position to place aimed fire into the suspect. I mean, if the guy actually had a gun that cop would be dead, since his panic fire accomplished not much of anything even from such a short range. > > No matter how you slice this, that cop was in the wrong and his reaction was ridiculous and unprofessional…and unlike in the other thread where training was discussed, this IS something that cop should have been trained on to a degree that such a reaction as demonstrated in the video is completely and totally unacceptable. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/83 "2014-09-25T16:23:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Short of reading the officer’s mind it is impossible to determine why he shot, but I doubt he got out of bed that morning and said to himself “Today I’m going to shoot a law-abiding black person”. Nobody thinks police officers say that to themselves. It’s just that they’re full of surprises! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/84 "2014-09-25T16:23:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Short of reading the officer’s mind it is impossible to determine why he shot, but I doubt he got out of bed that morning and said to himself “Today I’m going to shoot a law-abiding black person”. No, but like **XT** said, the cop totally panicked and fired from panic. Reaching into a car should not cause panic, much less shooting. The victim is not responsible for the fact that this cop was unreasonably panicky. The lesson here should be to ensure that we don’t have panicky cops. Panicky cops are much, much more dangerous to the general public than people who follow cops’ instructions without narrating every move. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/85 "2014-09-25T16:26:04Z")
Ah, **Smapti** , I love how it’s our responsibility to not get shot by cops. It’s on us. You’d do well in a police state. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/86 "2014-09-25T16:27:33Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Ah, **Smapti** , I love how it’s our responsibility to not get shot by cops. It’s on us. > > You’d do well in a police state. In a police state, **Smapti** ’s neighbors would definitely turn him in as a traitor. Considering his views, that would be by far the safest option were **Smapti** your neighbor. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/87 "2014-09-25T16:29:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, but like **XT** said, the cop totally panicked and fired from panic. Reaching into a car should not cause panic, much less shooting. The victim is not responsible for the fact that this cop was unreasonably panicky. The lesson here should be to ensure that we don’t have panicky cops. Panicky cops are much, much more dangerous to the general public than people who follow cops’ instructions without narrating every move. If panicky cops exist, then is it not common sense to avoid triggering them? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/88 "2014-09-25T16:29:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Probably not – the “malice aforethought” would seem to rule out “attempted murder”. In other jurisdictions, would this qualify as attempted 2nd degree murder? Usually, there’s no such crime anywhere. At common law, an attempt means that you specifically intended to commit a crime, and made a substantial step towards completing that crime, but were frustrated in your effort to complete it by some reason or force external to you. Second degree murder typically refers to a murder that happened without premeditation – in the heat of passion and without a pre-formed intent. So if that’s what second-degree murder means, that also forecloses any charge of “attempt.” Of course, different jurisdictions have different definitions and degrees, so I certainly acknowledge that “attempted second degree murder” might indeed be a viable charge somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/89 "2014-09-25T16:30:53Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Ah, **Smapti** , I love how it’s our responsibility to not get shot by cops. It’s on us. It’s not your responsibility to not be burglarized, but that doesn’t mean that you should leave your door unlocked because you shouldn’t _have_ to. Suggesting that you protect yourself != victim-blaming. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/90 "2014-09-25T16:32:41Z")
Everyone knows that the gas isn’t actually stored in the pumps, right? And that shooting a gas pump is going to result in, at worst, an inoperable gas pump? Everyone knows that, right? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/91 "2014-09-25T16:33:27Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > Everyone knows that the gas isn’t actually stored in the pumps, right? And that shooting a gas pump is going to result in, at worst, an inoperable gas pump? > > Everyone knows that, right? Not according to any Michael Bay movie _I’ve_ ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/92 "2014-09-25T16:37:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Usually, there’s no such crime anywhere. An acquaintance of mine, fueled by drugs and in a domestic fight, shot her partner in the stomach and paralyzed her, and was convicted of 2nd degree attempted murder (unless my memory is off, I’m pretty certain this was the charge). This was in Louisiana about 10-15 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/93 "2014-09-25T16:37:35Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I agree with all of this, but I want to add that the only reason I think he MIGHT be convicted is because he fired a shot after the suspect had his hands in the air and was backing away. His first couple of shots were, I think it will be ruled, justifiable: the officer had some cause to feel in fear. If true, the law should be changed. Jones did nothing to merit fear of the officer’s life. If turning around and reaching into your car **immediately after being ordered to produce something people often keep in their cars** is justification for trying to kill someone, the bar is set ridiculously low. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/94 "2014-09-25T16:38:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If panicky cops exist, then is it not common sense to avoid triggering them? For this particular panicky cop, there’s no telling what actions would trigger his panic. Freezing in place might have triggered this panic, for all we know. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/95 "2014-09-25T16:40:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > For this particular panicky cop, there’s no telling what actions would trigger his panic. Freezing in place might have triggered this panic, for all we know. Alright, so what advice would _you_ give to someone who finds themselves in a confrontation with a “panicky cop”? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/96 "2014-09-25T16:44:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Alright, so what advice would _you_ give to someone who finds themselves in a confrontation with a “panicky cop”? Freeze in place? Take the fetal position? Pray? I’m not sure if there is any wise and consistent advice to be given in the presence of a panicked person with a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/97 "2014-09-25T16:45:43Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I’ll certainly be willing to bet that it won’t be an all white jury, which is what you claimed (did you notice that the judge in the CNN clip that set bail was black btw?). Once the jury is made up we can see what it is and one of us can come back to the thread and eat some crow. Deal? 🙂 Who cares if some pundit judge is black? I’ll be waiting. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/98 "2014-09-25T16:47:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > An acquaintance of mine, fueled by drugs and in a domestic fight, shot her partner in the stomach and paralyzed her, and was convicted of 2nd degree attempted murder (unless my memory is off, I’m pretty certain this was the charge). This was in Louisiana about 10-15 years ago. It does exist (well, attempted second degree murder does, not second degree attempted murder, if you go in for that kind of nitpickery). If you do something without premeditation that you intend to result in killing somebody – like say if you get angry during a fight and without thinking about in advance you shoot them – that can definitely be an attempted second degree murder. Does not appear to be the case in South Carolina, though. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/99 "2014-09-25T16:49:02Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > If these hands were white, there would not have been a panicked reaction. If only he’d had vitiligo! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/100 "2014-09-25T16:49:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Because, as this video demonstrates, not every cop is a “trained professional”. > > Just because you think a given threat shouldn’t exist doesn’t mean you should act as if it doesn’t. Given your apologia for cops in every thread, my only conclusion is that it should be considered valid self-defense to shoot cops on sight just in case they decide to shoot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511.md?page=6)