# Another unarmed black guy shot by cops -- this time the cop is being prosecuted. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 25, 2014, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511 "2014-09-25T11:17:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/101 "2014-09-25T16:50:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Given your apologia for cops in every thread, my only conclusion is that it should be considered valid self-defense to shoot cops on sight just in case they decide to shoot. Even when I’m stating in no uncertain terms that the officer was _wrong_, it’s an “apologia”, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/102 "2014-09-25T16:53:40Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s not your responsibility to not be burglarized, but that doesn’t mean that you should leave your door unlocked because you shouldn’t _have_ to. > > Suggesting that you protect yourself != victim-blaming. It doesn’t, but somehow it has a way of turning into that over time. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/103 "2014-09-25T17:09:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He will likely claim he continued to shoot because adrenaline had taken over and he interpreted the man’s further movements as an attempt to flee. It will be up to a jury to decide what they make of such a claim. If so then yes indeed, it will be interesting to see what a jury would make of the claim that the victim raising his hands and falling down constitutes an attempt to flee. BTW, would you mind showing us your credentials that make you such an expert on police behavior? Wait, he’s reaching behind his computer~~!! _Kablam kablam kablam_ ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/104 "2014-09-25T17:10:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Even when I’m stating in no uncertain terms that the officer was _wrong_, it’s an “apologia”, apparently. Well, when you couple it with saying the victim’s wrong, too, that’s what I’d call an uncertain term, see as how we’re all disagreeing with you. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/105 "2014-09-25T17:14:37Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > If so then yes indeed, it will be interesting to see what a jury would make of the claim that the victim raising his hands and falling down constitutes an attempt to flee. Well he might have been mole people, or a Morlock, you don’t even know ! And seeing as his first reaction upon getting shot at was immediately to raise his hands and drop, I think there’s a very reasonable suspicion that he was preparing to tunnel away at high speed, then turn right at Albuquerque. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/106 "2014-09-25T17:15:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Alright, so what advice would _you_ give to someone who finds themselves in a confrontation with a “panicky cop”? “Stop being black?” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/107 "2014-09-25T17:17:11Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Well, when you couple it with saying the victim’s wrong, too, that’s what I’d call an uncertain term, see as how we’re all disagreeing with you. I never said the victim was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/108 "2014-09-25T17:18:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “My wallet is in the car - I’m going to reach in and grab it now.” > > It wouldn’t have been, but I’m trying to give advice here on how to avoid being shot by an overreacting cop, not advice on how to shoot an honest cop. Nice blaming the victim mentality. Honestly, it was a seatbelt violation. The cop had no reason to think the victim was doing anything other than what it appeared he was doing. If he thought the victim was being a threat, “Stop moving” would have been appropriate until he assessed the situation. The cop asked him to get his ID, he reached around to get his ID. WIth that trigger-happy a cop, there is very little anyone could have done to prevent him from going off. He could have perceived anything the victim said as argumentative, sarcastic, a lie etc. The onus is not on the average citizen to say the magic words to keep a cop from shooting us during a seat belt check! > [@Smapti](#): > > Alright, so what advice would _you_ give to someone who finds themselves in a confrontation with a “panicky cop”? Unfortunately, he probably didn’t realize he was dealing with a panicky cop until after he was shot! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/109 "2014-09-25T17:18:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > “Stop being black?” Well, that’s not really practical advice at the moment you find yourself in a law enforcement situation. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/110 "2014-09-25T17:22:32Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Nice blaming the victim mentality. I’m not blaming the victim. I’m saying that the fact is that some cops are edgy and less than perfect professionals and there is a chance that one might jump the gun and shoot you for an innocent move that he wrongly took to be an act of aggression, and so _basic self-preservation_ dictates that one should behave cautiously, to help reduce your chances of becoming a victim. If I suggest that you should lock your door in order to prevent burglary, am I blaming the victim? If I suggest that you look both ways before crossing the street in order to avoid being hit by a car, am I blaming the victim? What’s the difference between those things and suggesting that you act calmly and clearly state your intent when dealing with a police officer in order to avoid being wrongly shot? > [@](#): > > The onus is not on the average citizen to say the magic words to keep a cop from shooting us during a seat belt check! We have to live in the world that is, not the world that _should be_. Believing that bad things shouldn’t happen doesn’t mean you shouldn’t take steps to minimize your risk. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/111 "2014-09-25T17:30:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, that’s not really practical advice at the moment you find yourself in a law enforcement situation. “What were you doing that a cop had to pull you over?” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/112 "2014-09-25T17:32:43Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > “What were you doing that a cop had to pull you over?” Well, in this case, he was apparently not wearing his seatbelt. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/113 "2014-09-25T17:55:05Z")
Ah … the gateway crime to aggravated armed mopery and such. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/114 "2014-09-25T17:58:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > See, this is why, when speaking to a police officer, you _always_ move slowly and state out loud exactly what you’re doing with your hands. > > That being said, this officer seems to have overreacted. You are a piece of work. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/115 "2014-09-25T18:06:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I never said the victim was wrong. Except when you did. > [@](#): > > He was following directions- what did the officer think he was doing??? > [@Smapti](#): > > **He saw the man he had just asked for a license quickly turn around and reach into his car, where he couldn’t see his hands, for an unseen object.** > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He was acting cautiously. There was nothing reckless about any of his actions or movements. > [@Smapti](#): > > Even the ACLU will tell you that **when talking to a police officer, you should always move slowly and tell the officer exactly what you’re doing if you have to reach for something, open a glove box, etc.** > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In this case, there’s nothing this man did that could reasonably inspire someone to shoot him. So in this case, I have no reason to believe that any different behavior would have saved him. > [@Smapti](#): > > The officer will likely claim that he began shooting because he saw the man quickly reach into his car for an object he couldn’t see and believed that he might be going for a gun. That is an understandable train of thought. It’s not a justified one, but **I doubt the officer would have just started shooting for no reason whatsoever, regardless of the man’s actions.** ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/116 "2014-09-25T18:08:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > … I doubt he got out of bed that morning and said to himself “Today I’m going to shoot a law-abiding black person”… > . I’m with you. I doubt he said “black person”. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/117 "2014-09-25T18:08:30Z")
But that’s not victim blaming. Duh. It’s just saying that the victim should have known he’d be shot for it. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/118 "2014-09-25T18:13:11Z")
I’ve always been told that an armed society is a polite society; to which I always reply, “bullshit.” An armed society is a paranoid society. This clip proves it. Guns are so goddamned ubiquitous in this country that every scofflaw who fails to buckle up is automatically assumed to be armed and therefore fair game for a lead salad. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/119 "2014-09-25T18:24:01Z")
To be fair, **Smapti** did not actually blame the victim. He made comments that would come off as victim-blaming if they were made in a similar case in the future or in a different tone, and he constantly blames the victims of police violence or government misbehavior. But he didn’t quite go there this time. I don’t know if he will go there the next time this happens, but I don’t blame people for being shocked. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511/120 "2014-09-25T18:27:39Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > BTW, would you mind showing us your credentials that make you such an expert on police behavior? None of us really wants to see that goatse pic again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unarmed-black-guy-shot-by-cops-this-time-the-cop-is-being-prosecuted/699511.md?page=7)