# Another unpleasant Obama association **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982 "2008-10-15T01:01:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/41 "2008-10-15T01:46:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Good question. I would not seek to classify it as an association if Obama, or McCain, flew to another country and in the course of the trip gave a talk from a stage and some odious character happened to be on the stage as well. But if this character was a noted bad guy and was the one holding the event, I’d say a serious question begins, and needs, to be asked. That’s a rather loose standard. Couldn’t it apply to any well-traveled government official? After all, the world is full of odious characters. In fact, wouldn’t you want a President to know how to deal with these people? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/42 "2008-10-15T01:48:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But if this character was a noted bad guy and was the one holding the event, I’d say a serious question begins, and needs, to be asked. All of the “bad guy” things listed in the OP happened after Obama’s visit. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/43 "2008-10-15T01:48:07Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Dude! McCain brags about being friends with _Henry Kissinger._ And people are reaching for momentary associations of Obama? > > Anyone scary that we should be worried about these guys having ties to, is not in some other country or the Yippies or something, but in the DC establishment. You make a good point about the DC associations. But that doesn’t mean the others aren’t important, as well. And sometimes a pattern develops: Wright, Ayers, Odinga. That would indicate a pattern, would it not? And I don’t mean to imply that Obama would intentionally do anything that would hurt the country. Only that his world view may be something that would hurt the country unintentionally. And that if people knew what it was, they wouldn’t vote him in. Here’s another question: don’t you think the people have a right to have a clear understanding of what a candidate believes and stands for? I find Obama’s association to be troubliing to say the least. If it was nay one character, fine. But this pattern raises more than one eyebrow. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/44 "2008-10-15T01:51:14Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Here’s another question: don’t you think the people have a right to have a clear understanding of what a candidate believes and stands for? I find Obama’s association to be troubliing to say the least. If it was nay one character, fine. But this pattern raises more than one eyebrow. No, actually. No eyebrows are raised her. An awful lot of eyes are rolling, though. The desperation of the right wing is palpable. I’m kind of loving it… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/45 "2008-10-15T01:53:09Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > 😕 > > That’s your whole OP! If you’re not saying that Obama endorsed Odinga, what the fuck are you saying? Or are you hanging this whole thing on the absolutely disingenuous contention that all we’re doing is _assuming, for the sake of argument_, that the article is accurate? I see an “endorsement” as an official-type statement. Very public. A candidate can be helped by someone without that endorsement. > [@jayjay](#): > > No, actually, FIRST one needs to determine whether the article is accurate or not. You cannot simply declare by fiat that we are required to assume the article is accurate. You’re skipping a LOT of steps to getting to the truth here. For now, I see it as the most accurate information we have. It’s an article in a well-respected newspaper. It may be flawed, but we shouldn’t assume that until those flaws are pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/46 "2008-10-15T01:53:52Z")
On further reflection, are a candidate’s associations with foreigners as significant as his associations with other Americans? After all, unless you suspect the candidate of being a spy of some kind, how much benefit is the foreigner going to get from the association, since treaties and trade agreements have to go through Congress, anyway? The fellow American, though, if he’s a CEO of a major corporation, stands to benefit quite a lot if his friend gets elected, possibly to the detriment of the American taxpayer. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/47 "2008-10-15T01:54:51Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Wright, Ayers, Odinga. That would indicate a pattern, would it not? What pattern? They’re pretty dissimiliar, one was a Vietnam war protester, one a black preacher and ones a Kenyan politician. If you put them all in a room together, I doubt they’d have much to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/48 "2008-10-15T01:55:12Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But this pattern raises more than one eyebrow. What raises an eyebrow is your use of the word “pattern.” :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/49 "2008-10-15T01:55:31Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > It’s an article in a well-respected newspaper. It may be flawed, but we shouldn’t assume that until those flaws are pointed out. No, it’s not, again. The Moonie Times is only well-respected by people whose politics are already in line with True Father’s. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/50 "2008-10-15T01:56:39Z")
Kenya. Not Zimbabwe. Never was Rhodesia, still fucked. D’oh. But! We have our answer! Obama was meddling in internal Kenyan politics to support his tribal allegiance to the Luo tribe. Therein, behold the Darkness. (I don’t much approve of joke threads in Great Debates, but I gotta hand it up, credit where credit due, this is a beaut, **Mag**. You really had them going there, thinking maybe you were really serious about this drivel. I mean, _snap!_…) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/51 "2008-10-15T01:57:38Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > No, it is not. Opinion, shocking as it may be, registered. See ya. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/52 "2008-10-15T02:04:57Z")
This is a real game-changer. I feel the McMentum starting to rise. Obama is toast. No way he can recover from this bombshell. (Followed by a million of these: :rolleyes:) PS I heard Obama was seen in the checkout line at the grocery store only 2 people ahead of a convicted (and unrepentant, no doubt) arsonist. When will Obama stop lying and start answering questions about THIS association? Huh? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/53 "2008-10-15T02:06:45Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > magellan, even given that there is an association (which there really isn’t). We’re in the midst of the worst financial crisis since 1929, we’re at war in two countries (neither of them Kenya) against forces with an ideology unconnected to Odinga (or I assume you would have mentioned if Odinga was an Islamic fundamentalist). > > Do you actually think anyone cares about what’s happening in Africa? Even in 1994, when nothing like that was happening, we couldn’t be arsed to care about an actual freaking genocide. > > That’s what really gets me about these associations: a 1960’s radical and a bad guy in Africa? These aren’t things that anyone cares about right now. You bring up an excellent point. Yes, we have very important issues on the table that need our attention. But the fact is that in a very short time we’re going to select the person who will lead us in handling them. I think who that person is is of paramount importance. I think Obama is smart and gives a wonderful speech. And that statement is not meant to denigrate his oratorical skills. They should be lauded. But I think he is extremely liberal and borderline socialist (small “s”). His associations in the past lead me to the former, his tax plan proves the latter. Another reason why associations matter, if a pattern can be discerned, is that they give a glimpse into a person’s character. and given that we can never know what the problems and challenges are going to be for a President, I think that matters greatly. Do you think GWB would have been the person chosen if we knew we were going to be attacked 8 months after his inauguration? Do you think either McCain or Obama would have won their respective nominations if the financial problems we’re in hit early in March? I’d bet “no” on all accounts. So, the person we have in there is very important. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/54 "2008-10-15T02:09:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You make a good point about the DC associations. But that doesn’t mean the others aren’t important, as well. And sometimes a pattern develops: Wright, Ayers, Odinga. That would indicate a pattern, would it not? And I don’t mean to imply that Obama would intentionally do anything that would hurt the country. Only that his world view may be something that would hurt the country unintentionally. And that if people knew what it was, they wouldn’t vote him in. > > Here’s another question: don’t you think the people have a right to have a clear understanding of what a candidate believes and stands for? I find Obama’s association to be troubliing to say the least. If it was nay one character, fine. But this pattern raises more than one eyebrow. Why thank you for pointing to this, the good evidence shows that Obama has repudiated the bad acts of all mentioned, I thank you for helping me point out the good pattern coming out from these encounters. As for McCain’s pattern: [http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1238618.html](http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1238618.html) > [@](#): > > Nicaraguan rebel leaders, scrambling for a survival strategy in the wake of congressional refusal last week to appropriate new aid funds, pleaded today for independent financial contributions from U.S. supporters to two private foundations based in Washington. > > The contra leaders said Republican presidential candidate Robert Dole recently contributed $500 to rebel coffers, and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) donated $400. Adolfo Calero, one of four directors of the Nicaraguan Resistance who spoke at a press conference here, thanked the politicians. > **[McCain Funded Righwing Contra Death Squads](https://www.juancole.com/2008/10/mccain-funded-righwing-contra-death.html)** > > Many of the "contras" or members of right wing guerrilla groups fighting the Sandinista government in the 1980s were drug smugglers a... > [@](#): > > Many of the “contras” or members of right wing guerrilla groups fighting the Sandinista government in the 1980s were drug smugglers and terrorists. High government officials of the Reagan and Bush, Sr. administrations knew very well about the drug running. > > It has been alleged that the Contra drug smuggling sparked the crack cocaine crisis among African-Americans in Los Angeles. > > John McCain sent the Contras money from his own pocket. Was that even legal? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/55 "2008-10-15T02:13:28Z")
This is probably the most pathetic thread I’ve ever seen in GD. This is a perfect example of the willful stupidity that American conservatism has devolved to. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/56 "2008-10-15T02:14:29Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > What pattern? They’re pretty dissimiliar, one was a Vietnam war protester, one a black preacher and ones a Kenyan politician. If you put them all in a room together, I doubt they’d have much to talk about. Well of course they wouldn’t have anything to say to _each other_: **Barack Hussein Obama:** Number 7½? **Rev. Jeremiah Wright:** My Lord, the subversion of Christianity is proceeding according to plan. All is in place for you to be hailed as the new Messiah by Easter 2009. **BHO:** Excellent. Number 162,413? **Bill Ayers:** Lord Obama, I have been assured by our advance teams that the demolition charges will all be in place by Inauguration Day. **BHO:** Very good. Number 3.14159? **Raila Odinga:** My Lord, although the plans to harness Africa’s natural resources for The Cause have hit a few snags, I am assured by my underlings that everything will soon be back on track; and also that our army of bioengineered cyborg Maasai warriors will be ready only a few weeks behind schedule. **BHO:** Hmmm… _A trap door suddenly opens…_ **Raila Odinga:** AIEEEE! **Piranhas:** Chomp! Chomp! Chomp! ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/57 "2008-10-15T02:23:13Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > They should be lauded. But I think he is extremely liberal and borderline socialist (small “s”). His associations in the past lead me to the former, his tax plan proves the latter. Well, everyone’s a socialist right now. Bush, McCain, Obama, no borderline about it, and I think we could dicker about the small “s”. If you’re demanding pure capitalism, you’re SOL right now. But that said, I’m curious about what these associations are really supposed to indicate. What does a connection to Ayers really mean aside from Obama being involved in school reform? Wright, okay, I can see where you might assume Obama shares some value there. But what do pull out of Odinga? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/58 "2008-10-15T02:24:10Z")
In 1942 Sen. Byrd joined the KKK. Byrd is a Senator. Obama is a senator. Byrd is a democrat. Obama is a democrat. What else do we need? Obama is pro KKK. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/59 "2008-10-15T02:27:19Z")
Why is it that people will hint ominously that these things “should raise some serious questions”, but those same people refuse to take a stab at what in the everloving fuck those “serious questions” ought to be? It’s all a McGuffin. The point is not the answers or even the questions. The point is to say “bad guy” [words] “Obama” over and over. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/60 "2008-10-15T02:48:01Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Well of course they wouldn’t have anything to say to _each other_: > > **Barack Hussein Obama:** Number 7½?..\* > **Raila Odinga:** AIEEEE! > **Piranhas:** Chomp! Chomp! Chomp! He simply must, _must_! be carrying one of those expensive looking white cats, \*a la \*Ernst Stavro Blofeld. And lose the trapdoor chair, Obama nails him with a spear chucked from way across the room! Ah, thrown. _Thrown_ from way across the room… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982.md?page=4)