# Another unpleasant Obama association **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982 "2008-10-15T01:01:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/61 "2008-10-15T02:52:43Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Looks pretty cleanly debunked to me. He met with Odinga and other figures while in Kenya. Corsi wants to stretch that into an endorsement and hopefully more. He offers no facts, merely drawing conclusions from his own opinion. What exactly is there to debate? Corsi: Partisan hack or Super Duper Partisan Hack? Or rather just [Super Duper Majorly Insane Conspiracy Theorist](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_Corsi)? Even Michael Medved and Hugh Hewitt apparently think the guy’s too fringe. What does THAT tell you, **magellan**? As for “respected newspaper”, are you sure you’re not confusing the _Washington Times_ with the _Washington Post_? The latter is a well-respected newspaper-the former is most-definitely NOT. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/62 "2008-10-15T03:03:45Z")
This is one messed up thread. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/63 "2008-10-15T03:07:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Opinion, shocking as it may be, registered. See ya. See ya again, it is not only my opinion: > **[» Christian Science](http://cultnews.com/category/christianscience/)** > [@](#): > > Kwak’s predecessor at UPI D.M. Joo, another Unification Church member, will continue to head Moon’s umbrella organization News World Communications Inc., which is the corporate entity that controls UPI, The Washington Times, Insight, the World and I, Tiempos del Mundo and other Moon publications. > \*\* > The Washington Times continues to lose millions of dollars annually and has yet to show a profit.\*\* And UPI seems fated to follow in its footsteps. However, concerns about money have not detered Rev. Moon from utilizing his media holdings as effective tools to obtain influence and political clout. > > Famous White House reporter Helen Thomas ditched UPI the day after Moon took over and was quickly hired by Hearst News Service. Looking back, it seems she made a smart move. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/64 "2008-10-15T04:28:36Z")
[A senior Bush administration official “palling around” with Saddam Hussein](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDABe8AOuCQ). There. That’s precisely three thousand, nine hundred and eight and one-quarter percent more evidence for malfeasance than you’ve brought to the table. I win! ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/65 "2008-10-15T04:47:45Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I presented an article in a well-respected national paper. Now if you simply discount the article because of where it appeared, just say so and move on. Right now, we have the article in the WT and some hand-waving from you. The way I see it, if you want to play, the burden falls to you to disprove or counter what has been presented. Do you realize Jerome Corsi is a 9/11 tinhatter? People who believe and/or spread that shit cannot be trusted to tell you what time it is. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/66 "2008-10-15T04:50:44Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Why thank you for pointing to this, the good evidence shows that Obama has repudiated the bad acts of all mentioned, I thank you for helping me point out the good pattern coming out from these encounters. HA! Wright: He went to the man’s church for twenty years, got even closer to him and had him marry him, baptize his daughters and act as his personal spiritual advisor, yet, YET, he expects people to believe he never heard him spew his hate. There’s the audacity of hope and then there’s the audacity of lying. At least he’s got the last on down cold. And Ayers? Please. “Oh, he was just a guy who lived in the neighborhood”. If he winds up losing he should go straight to The Comedy Store reprising John Lovitz’s “Yeah, yeah, that’s the ticket.” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/67 "2008-10-15T04:52:00Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Do you realize Jerome Corsi is a 9/11 tinhatter? People who believe and/or spread that shit cannot be trusted to tell you what time it is. First, I don’t agree with that assessment. But more important, it has nothing to do with my OP. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/68 "2008-10-15T04:59:21Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > Well, everyone’s a socialist right now. Bush, McCain, Obama, no borderline about it, and I think we could dicker about the small “s”. If you’re demanding pure capitalism, you’re SOL right now. Too true. Too true. But still, some are worse than others, as is evidenced by their respective tax plans. > [@Menocchio](#): > > But that said, I’m curious about what these associations are really supposed to indicate. What does a connection to Ayers really mean aside from Obama being involved in school reform? Wright, okay, I can see where you might assume Obama shares some value there. But what do pull out of Odinga? I need to get more info on Odinga. It might very well be more benign than presented. I’m not saying it necessarily is, but it might be. Ayers has the Alinsky connection: super-liberal idiots wanted to create some chaos and temporary anarchy which would give their ideas a chance of gaining a foothold. Wright presents the question of to what degree Obama, and his wife, hold with black liberation theology and see the white man as the oppressor-devil. For Odinga I’ll have to learn more about the comparative stances of he and his main competitor. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/69 "2008-10-15T04:59:24Z")
You’re saying 9/11 tinhatters are trustworthy people? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/70 "2008-10-15T05:05:08Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > In 1942 Sen. Byrd joined the KKK. Byrd is a Senator. Obama is a senator. Byrd is a democrat. Obama is a democrat. What else do we need? Obama is pro KKK. Hmmm. I actually thought you knew better than this: build a hyper extreme example that has a slight resemblance to the issues posted and seek to draw equivalence. :rolleyes: Sigh. Consider ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/71 "2008-10-15T05:07:32Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Hmmm. I actually thought you knew better than this: build a hyper extreme example that has a slight resemblance to the issues posted and seek to draw equivalence. :rolleyes: Sigh. > > Consider ignorance fought. I’m not sure you realize exactly how thin the credibility behind your OP is. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/72 "2008-10-15T05:08:44Z")
> [@stolichnaya](#): > > Why is it that people will hint ominously that these things “should raise some serious questions”, but those same people refuse to take a stab at what in the everloving fuck those “serious questions” ought to be? > > It’s all a McGuffin. The point is not the answers or even the questions. The point is to say “bad guy” [words] “Obama” over and over. I don’t think that applies here. I’ve stated that I think that his associations show a pattern, or bent, what it indicates and why I think it is worthy of serious concern. If you’d like clarification on something, just ask. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/73 "2008-10-15T05:11:15Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > I’m not sure you realize exactly how thin the credibility behind your OP is. I change that to read that I might not realize how thin _some people_ think the credibility behind my OP is. And you’d be right. I hold the WT in much higher esteem than most on the left. I guess the reverse would be true for the NYT. So be it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/74 "2008-10-15T05:12:35Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Or rather just [Super Duper Majorly Insane Conspiracy Theorist](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_Corsi)? Even Michael Medved and Hugh Hewitt apparently think the guy’s too fringe. What does THAT tell you, **magellan**? Again, I made zero mention of the man who helped save us from John Kerry. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > As for “respected newspaper”, are you sure you’re not confusing the _Washington Times_ with the _Washington Post_? The latter is a well-respected newspaper-the former is most-definitely NOT. I think they both are. The Post is further to the left, the Times further to the right. But I don’t hold that further to the right equals less credible. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/75 "2008-10-15T05:13:05Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > HA! Wright: He went to the man’s church for twenty years, got even closer to him and had him marry him, baptize his daughters and act as his personal spiritual advisor, yet, YET, he expects people to believe he never heard him spew his hate. There’s the audacity of hope and then there’s the audacity of lying. At least he’s got the last on down cold. And Ayers? Please. “Oh, he was just a guy who lived in the neighborhood”. If he winds up losing he should go straight to The Comedy Store reprising John Lovitz’s “Yeah, yeah, that’s the ticket.” Another John played the pathological liar, but I think you are talking about McCain: [FactCheck.org](http://FactCheck.org) concludes McCain spot on Obama and Ayers is misleading [http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he\_lied\_about\_bill\_ayers.html](http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html) > [@](#): > > Voters may differ in how they see Ayers, or how they see Obama’s interactions with him. We’re making no judgment calls on those matters. What we object to are the McCain-Palin campaign’s attempts to sway voters - in ads and on the stump - with false and misleading statements about the relationship, which was never very close. Obama never “lied” about this, just as he never bragged about it. The foundation they both worked with was hardly “radical.” And Ayers is more than a former “terrorist,” he’s also a well-known figure in the field of education. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/76 "2008-10-15T05:16:39Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > See ya again, it is not only my opinion: > > [http://www.cultnews.com/?cat=29](http://www.cultnews.com/?cat=29) Yawn. Other than making sure to not by stock in it. Thanks for the tip. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/77 "2008-10-15T05:17:38Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I change that to read that I might not realize how thin _some people_ think the credibility behind my OP is. And you’d be right. I hold the WT in much higher esteem than most on the left. I guess the reverse would be true for the NYT. > > So be it. And be branded the “I swallow all the bait from the extreme right media?” so do not mind me? Works for me, I will save this thread wherever you pretend in the future that you can spot misleading information. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/78 "2008-10-15T05:26:08Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Yawn. Other than making sure to not by stock in it. Thanks for the tip. Leaving aside all the support you are getting here (none at all) it is clear that many already know that the Washington Times does not depend on being accurate or on having a readership to continue publishing trash. And you are only showing willful ignorance when you did not investigate what Mark Hyman and the Sinclair Broadcast Group are, (make the search also with swiftboaters if you are not bored) ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/79 "2008-10-15T06:02:25Z")
I don’t see much point to trying to argue the accuracy of a blatant smear job with no citations for their accusations, clearly labeled “commentary” in a newspaper more known for pushing its politics than for accuracy in reporting, so I’ll just point out that the author, [Mark Hyman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_E._Hyman) was the guy who’s idea it was to air the anti-Kerry film [Stolen Honor](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Honor) on all Sinclair Broadcast Group stations in the days leading up to the 2004 election. So, I think the appropriate response to the article is to see if anyone can provide any sort of citation to a reputable source that backs up anything. Seems pretty futile for me to sit here trying to prove that vague accusations of events two years ago in Kenya are untrue if nobody’s going to show what the evidence that they are true is first. If Hyman had posted that article as a GD post, the response would be, justifiably enough, “CITE?”. Just because he got the Moonies to dignify it with publication, doesn’t somehow shift the burden of proof onto the rest of us. In any event, the crux of the argument seems to be that Obama openly supported Odinga while visiting Kenya. Since I don’t think it was responded to upthread, I’ll mention [PolitiFact’s response](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/632/) (yes to Corsi’s specific allegations, but they seem on point to Hyman’s as well): > [@](#): > > Corsi states that Obama “openly supported” Raila Odinga. We found public statements from Obama during the trip saying the exact opposite. We found no other evidence to support Corsi’s statement, so we rate his statement False. ETA: I swear that **GIGObuster** ’s post about Sinclair and Swiftboating wasn’t there when I started writing. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982/80 "2008-10-15T06:26:29Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I change that to read that I might not realize how thin _some people_ think the credibility behind my OP is. And you’d be right. I hold the WT in much higher esteem than most on the left. I guess the reverse would be true for the NYT. Comparing the credibility of NYT and WT? You must be joking. Really, that’s a put-on, right? Don’t tell me you’re so blinded by partisanship you can’t recognize the WT for the hack rag that it it…and if you think the content of the NYT is partisan, you really aren’t paying attention. If Repubs lose and continue to gripe about “liberal media bias,” all they will do is ensure further losses and irrelevance in subsequent elections. So, please do continue. But don’t be surprised if people who actually care about accuracy and honesty simply point and laugh. Whiners are losers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-unpleasant-obama-association/467982.md?page=5)