# Another whine about the evil of the fairer sex **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432 "2003-06-30T21:16:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aaslatten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@aaslatten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaslatten)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/21 "2003-07-01T06:42:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jaade \* > \*\*Waitresses find it to their benefit to be “cute, pretty” and even a bit flirtatious at times. Don’t take this as any interest in you personally, they just want a decent tip. > ~J \*\* And you worked as a waitress, you say? ---
**Author:** ![jaykr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9e8a1a/32.png) [@jaykr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaykr)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/22 "2003-07-01T07:04:16Z")
~Hello, I’m new here, well, I’m new posting, I’ve read the board for a few days but anyway~ I’ve had a few waitressing jobs since I was 17 ( age 29 now) and I’ve gotten my share of come on lines, requests for my phone number and the frequent “So, what time do you get off work, baby?”…etc., etc. The cocktail server was wrong for even pretending she was interested, let alone giving a false number, no matter how drunk the guy was. No means NO. If I’m not interested, I just smile and say I’m busy, if that doesn’t work, I just keep saying NO until it sinks in, it usually does after the third time. Then again, “Cold hearted bitch” is often said in my presence… ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/23 "2003-07-01T07:19:21Z")
Well, frankly it was her own fault for hanging around for so long. The way I see it, Merijeek had absolutely nothing to lose by being persistent. Who knows what could have happened. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/24 "2003-07-01T07:24:12Z")
Well, this is how I took the OP. Maybe I should re-read it and get a second look, but this is how I took it: After he asked her out and she said she had a boyfriend, I _assumed_ that all the “Well, naturally he’s not invited” stuff was just playful bullshit, just to save face. Like he didn’t mean it, was just making a joke, just to make it stay light and casual. That line, by itself, I didn’t think was so bad. Like a way to bow out gracefully—she’ll know he’s aware he has no chance, he’s just bullshitting with her and making a little joke out of it. But the other off-hand comments after that about her phone number—yeah, I thought that was too much. I took it to mean that he was still in the “lighthearted ‘I’m just bullshitting with you’” frame of mind, but really, he should have let it go and let her be in peace. On the other hand, _why_ was she _continuing_ to down and chat at his table when she had a free moment? What was that all about? So, then when she gave him her number—well, obviously he did not expect that. Which means that he didn’t think he had a chance after hearing about the boyfriend. Which means that he _was_ just bullshitting and (at least in his own mind) not being serious with her. Even though, in her mind, she’s thinking, “Oh, no, not another guy hitting on me.” (But once again, _why_ did she keep sitting down at his table to chat?) And I think she was way out of line to give him the phone number. These things work both ways—if she was really weary of him and thought he was a jerk, just Let It Go. Like he really should have done earlier. Just let it go. But she didn’t do that. That was a mean, bitchy thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![3trew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/13edae/32.png) [@3trew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3trew)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/25 "2003-07-01T07:24:19Z")
I may be coming from an odd, if not evil, place here, but as to the existence of the boyfriend, I have a story. I noticed and became attracted to a woman. I overheard that she had broken up with her boyfriend. On Thursday, I (very gently) asked her if she’d like to go out with me on Saturday night. On Friday we ran into each other in a bar. She told me she’d been trying to get ahold of me to tell me that she couldn’t go out with me on Saturday because she’d gotten back together with her boyfriend. I sulked a bit in a good humoured way, I drank some, we played pool with some other folks, and eventually it sank in that there was something askew. We repaired to a part of the bar where a local group wasn’t viciously murdering Pink Floyd songs at a volume of 11, and she explained that I had missed out on a key part of the conversation due to the noise: she couldn’t go out with me because she’d gotten back together with her boyfriend, UNLESS that didn’t bother me. So, it does sometimes happen that the existence of the boyfriend is not a bar to other things. On the other hand, I suspect that my life is not a good general example of how things work, and I fully support the right of waitresses everywhere to have large hairy bikers beat the crap out of at least one person per fiscal quarter as a kind of payback for the crap they put up with. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/26 "2003-07-01T07:25:43Z")
Should have been “…why was she continuing to _sit_ down and and chat as his table?” Yeesh. And I previewed too. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/27 "2003-07-01T07:34:46Z")
C’mon you guys, judging by his story, he may have been out of line, but not egregiously so. What that girl did was cruel and she is a bitch for having done it. I only wish you had some way to get back at her. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/28 "2003-07-01T11:06:42Z")
OK, **Merijeek** was a jerk, the waitress was a bitch. Matter settled. **Ben Hicks** , that’s really creepy. _Really_ creepy. A lot of stuff works without being right, so just because a brain-damaged German exchange student got laid, that doesn’t mean you can act like no doesn’t mean no. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/29 "2003-07-01T11:12:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben Hicks \* > \*\* Perseverence can sometimes pay off. [ \*\* Didn’t I hear that on the A & E special on stalkers? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/30 "2003-07-01T11:15:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 2trew \* > We repaired to a part of the bar where a local group wasn’t viciously murdering Pink Floyd songs at a volume of 11, and she explained that I had missed out on a key part of the conversation due to the noise: she couldn’t go out with me because she’d gotten back together with her boyfriend, UNLESS that didn’t bother me. Of course, that just means you’d have landed a woman who isn’t afraid to cheat on the guy she’s with. Not so bad for a one-night stand (barring any retribution from the boyfriend/psychoness on the part of the gal), but bad news for anything more. My now-husband hit on me, and found out I had a boyfriend as a result. He still hung around - we were college students who lived on the same dorm floor, not customer/waitress, and really had become friends - and we got closer. Eventually I dumped my boyfriend, and hooked up with him. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/31 "2003-07-01T11:16:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > **Pretence 1 “I have a boyfriend” = "Fuck off you loser asshole."** Perhaps, but sometimes “I have a boyfriend” means “I have a boyfriend”. When I first met her, my wife had a boyfriend. She told me so, when I asked her out for a drink. I decided that I’d not accept defeat at the first hurdle. I’m glad I didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/32 "2003-07-01T11:20:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary Kumquat \* > \*\*When I first met her, my wife had a boyfriend. She told me so, when I asked her out for a drink. I decided that I’d not accept defeat at the first hurdle. I’m glad I didn’t. \*\* When I first met her, this girl had a boyfriend. She told me so, when I asked her out for a drink. I decided that I’d not accept defeat at the first hurdle. I miss my testicles. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/33 "2003-07-01T11:31:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Priceguy \* > \*\*When I first met her, this girl had a boyfriend. She told me so, when I asked her out for a drink. I decided that I’d not accept defeat at the first hurdle. I miss my testicles. \*\* It’s all in the way you do it. I found throwing myself at their feet, crying like a child, begging them for a date was a guaranteed way to charm the ladies. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/34 "2003-07-01T11:35:25Z")
Damn it, **Gary Kumquat**! Why didn’t you tell me this four years ago? I could have been getting laid all this time! ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Hicks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@Ben\_Hicks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Hicks)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/35 "2003-07-01T12:11:56Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Guinastasia_ > Or in some cases, “perserverence” makes you seem creepy and obsessive. Sure it does but looking creepy and obsessive sometimes is a fair price to pay for the times when it actually works, IMO. Who knows, you might end up spending the rest of your life with the girl of your dreams. I wouldn’t want to pass that up for fear of looking “creepy”. How would the James Bond movies have been if he always accepted defeat at the first hurdle? 🙂 > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Alice in Wonderland_ > When a woman says she has a boyfriend, there’s really no going back. > > \ > > If she says she has a boyfriend, it means “Piss off.” > > Really. Well, I’m glad I have you as a spokesperson for all womankind. Thanks for clearing that up. Much as I hate to question your omniscience, however, I must ask but two things. What if “I have a boyfriend” is simply the first thing that comes into this girls head and she doesn’t actually mean “Piss off”? And what, really, is the harm in making absolutely sure she wouldn’t touch you with a 60ft pole by persevering a little and digging a bit deeper? I mean, seriously, what is the harm? That you’ll look like an asshole? Well, if that’s your main concern then perhaps you should consider removing yourself from the dating game altogether until you’ve acquired an ego stronger than a wet Kleenex. On the other hand, it _might work_ (See **Gary Kumquat’s** post a little above mine) and the few times it does work most definately outweighs the times it doesn’t. So what else could be the harm? That the girl would be bothered? Maybe, but it’s not like I’m advocating following her home and serenading her at her bedroom window. I’m just saying a little perseverence sometimes goes a long way and if you’re just going to trot away like an obedient little lapdog at the first brush off each and every time then maybe you don’t deserve to have the girl in the first place. I don’t think **Merijeek** crossed the line. From some of the posts in this thread you’d think she’d put out a restraining order against him for sending her dead birds in the mail as love tokens. On the other hand the girl might, in spite of your fervent protestations to the contrary, be a little flattered at the attention and reconsider. Stranger things have happened. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Priceguy_ > Ben Hicks, that’s really creepy. Really creepy. A lot of stuff works without being right, so just because a brain-damaged German exchange student got laid, that doesn’t mean you can act like no doesn’t mean no. Oh fer pete’s sake, you make it sound like I’m advocating rape! All I’m saying is that it’s not always wise to drop down like a lame horse at the very first obstacle that gets in your way. I’m going to quote a post **Scylla** made a year or 2 back which encapsulates my view perfectly. > [@](#): > > _Thus Spake Scylla_ > Boyfriend? Boyfriend? > > Who gives a shit? > > What are you still in the 8th grade? > Why don’t you ask a friend to ask a friend to find out if she likes you? > > Jesus fucking Christ on a crutch, have you been emasculated? What happened to your balls? > > Don’t blame the girl because you’re not enough of a man to go out and get what you want. > > Did you think it was gonna be easy? > > Most every good-looking girl has a boyfriend all the time. If she ain’t married, and he’s not your buddy who gives a shit? > > Stop being such a whiny pussy over a little adversity. > > Do you think Conan the Barbarian would worry about a boyfirend? > > Do you think James Bond would say “Oh, I didn’t know you had a boyfriend.” > Fucking ROB SCHNEIDER wouldn’t let this stop him. That’s how low on the Totem Pole you are. > > A fucking blind guy just climbed Everest. Stand up and be a man. You want her, go get her. A little perseverence can sometimes be a very, very good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Jdeforrest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@Jdeforrest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jdeforrest)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/36 "2003-07-01T12:20:40Z")
I’m with Yosemitebabe. She shouldn’t have been flirting if she didn’t want to be picked up. I say take the petty revenge tactic and write her number on as many bathroom stall doors as you can find. She likes talking to drunk guys does she… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/37 "2003-07-01T12:21:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben Hicks \* > **On the other hand, it _might work_ (See Gary Kumquat’s post a little above mine) and the few times it does work most definately outweighs the times it doesn’t.** For you, maybe. Not for the girl. For Christ’s sake, man, I’m not even a woman and I’m offended here. What do you think a woman thinks when a guy won’t back off after she has said she has a boyfriend? “Oooh, how cute, he must _really_ like me!”? Women spend much of their time a little bit afraid that some guy will decide that this is the night she’ll be beaten and raped. Even if that’s not your intention, how is she supposed to know? How is she supposed to differentiate between you who won’t take no for an answer and the sex criminal asshole who won’t take no for an answer? > [@](#): > > **So what else could be the harm? That the girl would be bothered?** Ummm… YES! > [@](#): > > **On the other hand the girl might, in spite of your fervent protestations to the contrary, be a little flattered at the attention and reconsider. Stranger things have happened.** Or she might be creeped out and scared. Not that you’ll care, 'cause you won’t even know. As for **Scylla** ’s post, all I can say is that Conan and James Bond are _not_ my role-models. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/38 "2003-07-01T13:23:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Priceguy \* > \*\* > How is she supposed to differentiate between you who won’t take no for an answer and the sex criminal asshole who won’t take no for an answer? > \*\* Making a woman feel physically safe around me, personally, is indeed my responsiblity; after all, without it, i would stand less chance than the zero I enjoy now. Making a woman feel safe and non-paranoid in general, on the other hand, isn’t my job: its the sex criminal asshole’s job. There’s nothing I can do about it. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/39 "2003-07-01T13:23:07Z")
**Scylla** uses hyperbole as well; perhaps not taking everything he writes quite so literally might be a good thing. To clarify what I said above - my husband, when we were in just-friends mode, never pushed the issue. I knew he was still attracted to me, just because I could tell by the way he’d look at me sometimes. But he didn’t make me feel nervous, like I was raw meat he was eyeing up. It was more “appreciative” than anything, and he was very respectful of me. However, he did diplomatically point out when my then-boyfriend was being an asshole (and he was), and because other friends had begun to say it too, I didn’t think it was just a ploy to get into my pants. To address **Ben** ’s point about why you’d care if the girl thought you were getting a little creepy - if the thought that you’re scaring another human being doesn’t bother you, perhaps the thought that she’s telling her female friends about this obsessed guy and to stay away from him will. ---
**Author:** ![j\_kat\_251](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71c47a/32.png) [@j\_kat\_251](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j_kat_251)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/40 "2003-07-01T13:29:09Z")
Oh yeah, that’s right. I forgot how girls never use the “boyfriend” line as complete fucking bullshit AND/OR test to see how well you handle pressure. “Hey, what’re you doing after work?” “I am having ze boyfriend, ja?” “Um, er, yeah, well, um, ah, I guess I’ll, uh, see you round, errrr haah mmmmfffff” “Hey, what are you doing after work?” “Yo, I gots me a baby daddy, word” “Well, hey, I’m proud of ya, kid. But here’s some advice, you’ll probably lose tips if you keep saying that to every guy who comes in here - because it’s not such a great achievement after all” “_giggle, sigh_A man who is in control of his life and doesn’t piss his pants in terror at the thought of a girl having a boyfriend? Which means he can be mine - if he wants me? MY GOD THE DRAMA” Wash, rinse, repeat live happily ever after your mileage may vary odometer not included. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432.md?page=3)