# Another whine about the evil of the fairer sex **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432 "2003-06-30T21:16:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bren\_Cameron\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@Bren\_Cameron\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bren_Cameron_1)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/61 "2003-07-01T17:35:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Priceguy \* > \*\* > > Women spend much of their time a little bit afraid that some guy will decide that this is the night she’ll be beaten and raped. Even if that’s not your intention, how is she supposed to know? How is she supposed to differentiate between you who won’t take no for an answer and the sex criminal asshole who won’t take no for an answer? > \*\* Some men understand this, but a lot that I’ve met don’t. I’m not a tiny, weak little thing, but most men are bigger and stronger than I am. A man who won’t take no for an answer, who persists in hitting on me or asking for a number or a date when I’ve said no, doesn’t just seem creepy–it’s threatening. There’s a way to be persistent that isn’t threatening, of course, and I’m not trying to say that the OP was being a complete asshole. It sounds to me like he was a bit drunk and was dealing with some mixed signals from the waitress. And she was completely out of line with the phone number thing. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/62 "2003-07-01T18:09:28Z")
> [@](#): > > "They are playing a game they are playing at not playing a game, if I show them that I see they are, I shall break the rules and they will punish me Therefore I must play the game of not seeing that I see the game. " > ~ **RD Laing** > > “You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” > ~ **Plato** > > “All human play is testing potential.” > ~ **Leonardo da Vinci** And one for the OP: > [@](#): > > “You have played enough; you have eaten and drunk enough. Now it is time for you to depart.” ~ **Horace** DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/63 "2003-07-01T18:15:05Z")
Well, maybe it would be more accurate to say that mature women don’t play games. If the OP is a game-player, and the waitress is a game-player, then nobody has a legitimate bitch. I just think the whole game-playing thing is stupid and counter-productive to happy, healthy relationships. ---
**Author:** ![Jaade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/64 "2003-07-01T18:33:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrazyCatLady \* > \*\* > The moral is: women don’t like it when you ignore the fact that they’re not available and keep hitting on them anyway. Some of them will just give you a fake phone number, but some of us will fucking run over you with the car. \*\* Did I ever tell you, you’re my hero? 🙂 Priceguy: Thank you. Pedro: I agree with Priceguy 100% on your comment about the relationship between the waitress and her boss. Did anyone stop to think MAYBE she was the GF before she became the waitress? Still not the best move on the boss’s part, or the girl’s, but it does happen. > [@](#): > > Aaslatten: > Nope, I was just saying calling’s a sucker’s move. > > That’s right; I’m not single and in fact I’m dating a waitress who waited on me. But whatever … don’t take my advice … it’s just based on real-life experience … > And you worked as a waitress, you say? Ok, I’m sorry, I wasn’t intending for you to be upset by my statement. Please explain to me how it makes you a “sucker” to call a girl after you ask for her phone number? Was your GF waitressing to make money or to find a BF? I didn’t say that a waitress will never date a customer. I didn’t say that at all. But the majority of the time, the waitress is NOT interested. She’s doing a job. How would you like it if people expected you to go out with them because you were nice to them at the place you are employed? Yes, I did work as a waitress. Yes, I did find out that being nice to the customers…smiling, making eye contact, being overly nice even when the customer was at fault got me better tips than being a bitch. What’s your point? ~J ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/65 "2003-07-01T18:40:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I just think the whole game-playing thing is stupid and counter-productive to happy, healthy relationships. This statement kind of assumes a universal standard for a good relationship. A good relationship for you may be different from a good relationship for me. That doesn’ make one schema better than the other, it just makes them different. For some people, not playing games would lead to boredom, which would lead to an unhappy and unhealthy relationship. Two folks can be happy, healthy, committed, and mature and still love to play games with each other. Different strokes for different folks as the old standby goes. Fortunately there are 6 or 7 Billion people in the world so there is plenty of diversity (with the highest concentration of beautiful women being the island of Manhattan - also the number one concentration of game players outside of Vegas). DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/66 "2003-07-01T19:31:58Z")
> [@](#): > > And now, straight from the Dark Ages, Pedro! Not a sensible bone in his body! > > The really scary thing isn’t that you think whether a girl is dating her boss or not is your business or has any bearing on the matter discussed, but that you don’t understand how fucking stupid even bringing it up really is. You’re so amusing when you are hysterical. It has no bearing in particular. I just thought it was poor judment (like giving the boyfriend’s phone number) and I said so. When did I make it my business? It might be a perfect relationship, I don’t know and I don’t care but the chances that she’ll lose her job along with her boyfriend are high. It has more bearing on the matter than your stupid remark about approaching two girls kissing. You’re wrong on several levels sophistication man, but I don’t feel like taking them point by point because of my aversion to rolleyes. At least I credit intelligent women with the hability to take a position and make their options clear, I don’t consider them some fragile flower who may not be exposed to the cruelness of some light hearted flirts. ---
**Author:** ![aaslatten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@aaslatten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaslatten)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/67 "2003-07-01T22:56:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jaade \* > \*\* > > Ok, I’m sorry, I wasn’t intending for you to be upset by my statement. It was just the way you said, “you mean you’re not single now?” as if it would surprise you if I weren’t. > [@](#): > > Please explain to me how it makes you a “sucker” to call a girl after you ask for her phone number? It’s not really. I was exaggerating, but what I meant was that it hardly ever works. Even when a girl gives you a number, it may be just a spontaneous thing she regrets later. Or if guy calls first or too soon, some girls assume he’s desperate or something. It’s a stupid game. However, I’ve called girls later when it did work (at least enough for a first date), so just take this with a grain of salt. > [@](#): > > Was your GF waitressing to make money or to find a BF? I didn’t say that a waitress will never date a customer. I didn’t say that at all. But the majority of the time, the waitress is NOT interested. I understand. That’s why I said in my first post that if you insist on pursuing waitresses and bartenders, at least do it politely and gently. Wait for the green light, so to say. > [@](#): > > She’s doing a job. How would you like it if people expected you to go out with them because you were nice to them at the place you are employed? > > Yes, I did find out that being nice to the customers…smiling, making eye contact, being overly nice even when the customer was at fault got me better tips than being a bitch. What’s your point? I just wonder how people do a job that required them to be so ungenuine all the time. If I screwed up the coding on this, I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/68 "2003-07-01T23:07:40Z")
**Jaade** and **don’t mind me** : > [@](#): > > Waitresses are not working to pick up dates, they are working to pay the rent. Waitresses find it to their benefit to be “cute, pretty” and even a bit flirtatious at times. Don’t take this as any interest in you personally, they just want a decent tip. > [@](#): > > waitresses in bars are sometimes flirty and friendly because it gets them better tips. Behavior that would be considered teasing by, say, a female customer is part of making a living; grownups understand this and play along without taking it too seriously. Hell, I’m a straight woman, and (presumably straight) waitresses have flirted with me. And yes, I’ve gone along with it and tipped accordingly. It’s all part of the game that makes life a little more pleasurable. Yes, guys know it’s a bit of a game, and that waitstaff are nice in part because it helps them get paid. _But_, the only reason why it works is because in some part of a guy’s mind (or girl’s), he or she believes the waitperson actually _is_ nice, or actually _is_ interested. To assume that someone’s going to leave a bigger tip for the privelage of playing a game he or she has no chance of winning is ridiculous. If guys didn’t think they had any chance with a waitress, it wouldn’t matter how nice she was; she’d get her 15% tip and he’d go pay attention to someone else. Saying what you have shows that you know _what_ to do to get more tips, but you really don’t understand _why_ it works. **featherlou** : > [@](#): > > Yeah, I was a little put off by that remark, too - it sort of stinks of “well, she shouldn’t dress that way if she doesn’t want to get raped.” I agree that the comment you’re referencing is just plain dumb, but I don’t understand why you (and others so far) feel this is at all comparable to rape. No does mean no, but when we’re not talking about coercion, it’s ok to ask again. In no way did the girl in the OP give off any indication that she was uncomfortable or felt unsafe, and I think bringing references to rape and her safety does nothing but sound reactionary. I particularly find your implication that **Pedro** ’s comment was unenlightened and backwards funny as it was immediately followed by this: > [@](#): > > And just for the record, the good women don’t play games. Which you did ammend a little, but still seems like you’ve got the lockdown on what is acceptable behavior for women. Perhaps rethinking your assumptions on what ‘good’ ‘healthy’ and ‘mature’ women can and cannot do. ---
**Author:** ![Jaade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/69 "2003-07-01T23:47:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aaslatten \* > \*\*It was just the way you said, “you mean you’re not single now?” as if it would surprise you if I weren’t. In truth, that I did mean. The way you stated your original post just sounded like my brother…when he was 12. (Or, to paraphrase a line that keeps running through my head…"I don’t call da ho’s, the ho’s call me!) > [@](#): > > It’s not really. I was exaggerating, but what I meant was that it hardly ever works. Even when a girl gives you a number, it may be just a spontaneous thing she regrets later. Or if guy calls first or too soon, some girls assume he’s desperate or something. It’s a stupid game. However, I’ve called girls later when it did work (at least enough for a first date), so just take this with a grain of salt. That’s better. Had you said that in the first place, I would have had a much different feeling about your post. > [@](#): > > I understand. That’s why I said in my first post that if you insist on pursuing waitresses and bartenders, at least do it politely and gently. Wait for the green light, so to say. Again, good advice. > [@](#): > > I just wonder how people do a job that required them to be so ungenuine all the time. Disingenuous how? I’m a naturally chatty, flirtatious kind of gal. Waitressing was very easy for me personally. It also helped that I knew how to handle most drunk people. You can flirt with someone just for the sake of flirting, without intending to take them home. **Eonwe** , I’ve had many male waiters flirt with me. I didn’t take them seriously for a moment. Flirting with me doesn’t get a better tip than any other waiter that makes sure my glass is full, my order is taken promptly, and my food is delivered hot. But, as another girl stated, it does make the evening more fun. ~J ---
**Author:** ![Jaade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/70 "2003-07-01T23:49:37Z")
Bah, sorry about the coding. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/71 "2003-07-02T02:48:43Z")
Coding errors forgiven. 🙂 Perhaps (and please everyone forgive me for making a generalization based on nothing but my own experience) women are a little more realistic or less gullible then, when it comes to this sort of thing. Pretty much every guy I know has talked in mostly-jest about asking out a waitress, poking fun at a friend because a waitress seemed to latch onto him, and whathave you. I say mostly jest because even though we know she’s getting paid to be polite, she’s not getting paid to flirt, or to sit down at our table and chat, or whatever. Maybe we’re all just desparate and pathetic, but honestly, I think it’s tough to blame someone for believing that someone is enjoying his/her company when the other person gives that off, even if they’re paid to serve you. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/72 "2003-07-02T03:03:18Z")
**Ben Hicks** , I had a friend that turned stalker on me-fortunately I was able to stop it before it started to get serious. If someone kept being “persistant” with me, it would creep me the fuck out, and I’d probably run the other way. Why would I want to date someone who is going to risk hurting me or freaking me out just because he wants something? I’d be more receptive to someone who isn’t so fucking pushy. (And I’m not talking about playing hard to get-I’m saying being relaxed and just being FRIENDS). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/73 "2003-07-02T03:09:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pedro \* > \*\*Who in their right mind would pass the opportunity to use a line as good as: “Naturally he’s not invited. That’d be pretty awkward, don’t you think?” > > I think everyone should lighten up, Merijeek was just being playful, it doesn’t grant her the right to behave like an idiot. \*\* That was fine-but unfortunately, he didn’t stop there. IF he had simply said that, then let it go, I would have laughed and moved on. If he kept at it, he was a jerk. Yeah, the waitress was an idiot. But he was a dick. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/74 "2003-07-02T04:06:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eonwe \* > \*\*\ **featherlou** : > I agree that the comment you’re referencing is just plain dumb, but I don’t understand why you (and others so far) feel this is at all comparable to rape. No does mean no, but when we’re not talking about coercion, it’s ok to ask again. In no way did the girl in the OP give off any indication that she was uncomfortable or felt unsafe, and I think bringing references to rape and her safety does nothing but sound reactionary. \*\* My statement was not about rape per se, but about the non sequiturial nature of **Pedro’s** statement - what I meant was that the waitress dating her boss had absolutely nothing to do with her interactions with the OP, just like what a woman was wearing has nothing to do with whether she should have been raped. > [@](#): > > \*\* > I particularly find your implication that **Pedro** ’s comment was unenlightened and backwards funny as it was immediately followed by this: > > “And just for the record, the good women don’t play games.” {originally posted by featherlou} > Which you did ammend a little, but still seems like you’ve got the lockdown on what is acceptable behavior for women. Perhaps rethinking your assumptions on what ‘good’ ‘healthy’ and ‘mature’ women can and cannot do. \*\* No, actually, I’m not planning on re-thinking my opinions on what good, healthy and mature women do and don’t do (not “can” and “cannot” - anyone “can” do anything they want; they probably shouldn’t, though). I stand by my opinion that good, mature women don’t play these silly kinds of games with men. I don’t think dishonesty, deception and manipulation have any place in a healthy relationship, and I _will_ stand by that. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/75 "2003-07-02T04:19:08Z")
Gotcha **featherlou** , and point withdrawn. I was getting the feeling in this thread, though, that people were using words relating to date rape (‘no means no’ and such), and it seemed to be implying a level of danger and hostility and intention that just wasn’t there. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/76 "2003-07-02T04:23:19Z")
whoops. I only responded to the top half of your post. I actually agree with you in part re: your second point. I certainly have no desire to be playing games. I don’t understand them, and just end up getting hurt. But, I think as **dalovindj** says, it all depends on what you’re looking for. If two people are playing the same game with the same rules, then there are no surprises and no one gets burnt. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/77 "2003-07-02T05:06:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by j\_kat\_251 \* > “Hey, what are you doing after work?” > “Yo, I gots me a baby daddy, word” > “Well, hey, I’m proud of ya, kid. But here’s some advice, you’ll probably lose tips if you keep saying that to every guy who comes in here - because it’s not such a great achievement after all” > “_giggle, sigh_A man who is in control of his life and doesn’t piss his pants in terror at the thought of a girl having a boyfriend? Which means he can be mine - if he wants me? MY GOD THE DRAMA” Ummmmmmm yeah, like THAT conversation would ever take place between a pushy guy and a girl with more than two brain cells to rub together. Okay dokay then. Another woman here with a vote for: I have a boyfriend = piss off And I’m also voting for: Pushy guy who “perseveres” = creepy and NOT dateable. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/78 "2003-07-02T06:04:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pedro \* > **You’re so amusing when you are hysterical.** Yes, why not resort to ad hominem attacks when our arguments run out? Not that you had any to start with. > [@](#): > > **It has no bearing in particular. I just thought it was poor judment (like giving the boyfriend’s phone number) and I said so. When did I make it my business? It might be a perfect relationship, I don’t know and I don’t care but the chances that she’ll lose her job along with her boyfriend are high.** All of this has absolutely nothing to do with the matter at hand, as you yourself say at the beginning of this paragraph. It should have been kept out of the discussion. It may well be poor judgment on her part, but that is totally irrelevant. > [@](#): > > **It has more bearing on the matter than your stupid remark about approaching two girls kissing.** Nope. Asking two lesbians if you can watch is essentially the same as trying to deliver clever “lines” to a waitress; you (with your paleolithic brain) think you’re being really clever and cool and impressing your buddies, whereas all you do is embarrass (best case) or intimidate (worst case) the female/s involved. > [@](#): > > **You’re wrong on several levels sophistication man, but I don’t feel like taking them point by point because of my aversion to rolleyes.** No, you don’t “feel” like arguing because you can’t. You’re wrong. Note all the women agreeing with me; how many women are agreeing with you? > [@](#): > > \*\*At least I credit intelligent women with the hability to take a position and make their options clear, I don’t consider them some fragile flower who may not be exposed to the cruelness of some light hearted flirts. \*\* You still don’t get it, do you? Kindly have a sex-change operation so I won’t suffer the embarrassment of sharing my gender with you anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/79 "2003-07-02T06:05:38Z")
How exactly does meaningless flirting make an evening more fun? What’s fun about being teased with something you can’t have? ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/80 "2003-07-02T11:51:47Z")
> [@](#): > > I would say that “Don’t stick your wick in the Company Oil” is a good rule of thumb. A breach of this rule doesn’t make one foolish per se, just maybe it is a decent hint that the person makes some reckless decicions (which could be a good thing). **dalovindj** I’ve been in the nightclub/entertainment industry for many a year now…it’s not the same dynamics of working at your typical office job, and the protocols are completely different. You have to remember, when everyone else is having fun on Saturday night partying till dawn, we’re the ones working to host your party. Our weekend starts Monday, and don’t EVER call my house before 1 PM, cause all you’ll get is my machine and I turn off the ringer entirely. I even managed to pound this into my mother’s head, which was no small feat, I assure you. I work till 2 AM, go to bed right about the time my fiance is getting up for work. Our hours/offtimes are what makes it damn hard to meet people that aren’t A) creepy guys in bars who won’t take no for an answer or B) people we work with. So, we tend to take the lesser of the two evils and date our co-workers. I promise you any bar or nightclub of your choice that employs over 50 people will have more inter-personal drama than your average daytime soap opera. We’re all friends, alot of us hang out together after hours, and we spend a TON of time hanging out after-hours drinking at the same bar with our co-workers. (Among many other places, I worked at the Excalibur nightclub in Chicago, a perfect example of what I’m talking about) That being said, it’s not like it NEVER happens that we date customers. Your best bet? Let her take the initiative. We’re waitresses for crissakes, being shy ain’t part of the job. If we’re interested, if we don’t come right out and ask you, we’ll DEFINITELY give you the opening to ask us out, complete with all the right signals. No means no. Always. Except when it doesn’t, but I personally loathe those type of women. It’s the sole greatest contributing factor to my almost complete lack of female friends, despite the fact I currently work in a gentleman’s club with almost nothing BUT women. **CrazyCatLady** , you explained it perfectly. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432.md?page=5)