# Another whine about the evil of the fairer sex **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432 "2003-06-30T21:16:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Tir\_Tinuviel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@Tir\_Tinuviel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tir_Tinuviel)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/81 "2003-07-02T12:26:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > **Guess what - “I’ve got a boyfriend” means “Fuck-off asshole, I’m not interested”, but all tarted up for public consumption, just as an FYI.** > [@](#): > > \*\*If she says she has a boyfriend, it means “Piss off.” > \*\* whooooo!!! And I thought _I_ was antisocial! If I say I have a boyfriend, it means I have a boyfriend. It **does not** mean fuck off and die… My God! > [@](#): > > **Just to clear up some female nomenclature for you fellas.** Then, shit, I had better go back to How-to-be-a-Girl school or whereverthefuck you learn this crap, cos I was never taught it! ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/82 "2003-07-02T12:36:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*That was fine-but unfortunately, he didn’t stop there. > > IF he had simply said that, then let it go, I would have laughed and moved on. If he kept at it, he was a jerk. \*\* No, he wasn’t. Kept at what? Chating and making jokes? Oh, the horror. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/83 "2003-07-02T12:54:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Nope. Asking two lesbians if you can watch is essentially the same as trying to deliver clever “lines” to a waitress no, it’s not. At all. not in the slightest. You are taking the situation of the OP and shaping it into an ax for you to grind, even though its nothing but a pudding spoon. He asked for her number, she said she had a boyfriend. He made a lighthearted joke. she kept talking and flirting with him, so he chanced his arm again at the end of the night for a phone number, and she gave it to him. 1. At no point did she say “no, I’m not interested.” In fact, her continuing over-attention she was paying him would give an average man with a few beers down his neck the idea to have another chance at her number. No harm, no foul. 2. At no point did he behave in any way threatening to her. It’s perfectly understandable that women can be on their guard in modern society, but the amount of people riding into this thread on their high horse makes it look like a set from “Charge of the Light Brigade”. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/84 "2003-07-02T13:26:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aaslatten \* > \*\*1. Nothing wrong with hitting on waitresses … in theory … but be gentle … it’s their job after all > > 1. I don’t understand why she gave you her phone number, unless she’s interested in dumping her boyfriend. Maybe she sabotaged the relationship with this little stunt. > > 2. Phone numbers don’t usually lead to anything anyway. When I was single, I rarely called. It was more fun to bump into the girl later and have her ask why I didn’t call. \*\* Sorry for the lack of responses to this. I didn’t even realize anyone was replying to the thread - I guess I missed the check box or something. Thanks to the person who e-mailed me telling me to get in here and defend myself. I will, but I’m very busy today. It’ll happen, tho. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/85 "2003-07-02T13:33:00Z")
> [@](#): > > dalovindj I’ve been in the nightclub/entertainment industry for many a year now…it’s not the same dynamics of working at your typical office job, and the protocols are completely different. It’s plenty different, but the same rule still applies. I spend much of my time in bars and am really close friends with the owners and many regulars of the various joints. Most of em have a rule against intra-staff dating. Not that it works, people still hook up (lots), but they typically try to keep it from the owners. No one wants a waitress or bartender crying in the middle of a shift when the relationship explodes. Some owners of these places even go so far as to tell the waitresses that their boyfriends/girlfriends cannot hang out and drink while they are working (not that this is legal). Same reason. Another reason is that they don’t want to deal with jealous people starting trouble. A cute and flirty staff is good for business. Fights aren’t. My point is that I’ve spent lots and lots of time at bars, clubs, and after-hours joints myself. The dynamics are certainly different from my day job at a bank, but the “hands off the staff” rule still applies. Hell, I’d never even THINK of hitting on anyone at my day job. I was thinking strictly of the service industry when I made those comments. Now, all that said, rules are made to be broken, and 2 of these owner guys just got married to women who were once waitresses for them, so it shows how much they follow their own rules. It does happen, and the results aren’t always bad, but they definitely can be. Such behaivior is discouraged at all the places in which I hang out, but, human nature is hard to resist. > [@](#): > > Our hours/offtimes are what makes it damn hard to meet people that aren’t A) creepy guys in bars who won’t take no for an answer or B) people we work with. Well, what about church/bible study? :_snicker_: > [@](#): > > The bars are always open, and the time is always right, and if God’s good word goes unspoken, the music goes all night. ~ **Sublime** DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/86 "2003-07-02T13:34:06Z")
\*\*Pricegiy[B/]: > [@](#): > > Asking two lesbians if you can watch is essentially the same as trying to deliver clever “lines” to a waitress; Just because you are suck at the clever part doesn’t mean everybody else should. I have no interest in getting into a pissing match with you. **TwistofFate** summed up some of my thoughts nicely. You’re not worth the time it takes to take your posts paragraph by paragraph. I do find your atitude demeaning to women. It is flatering to show interest in someone and the waitress should have shown some respect for that. A simple “no” works well enough. Apparently **Guin** agrees with you. Good for you. I understand this gives you “victory”, so be it. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/87 "2003-07-02T13:35:25Z")
Sorry for mispeling your name and sorry for the bad coding. I previewed. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/88 "2003-07-02T13:46:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > \*\*Well, this is how I took the OP. Maybe I should re-read it and get a second look, but this is how I took it: > > After he asked her out and she said she had a boyfriend, I _assumed_ that all the “Well, naturally he’s not invited” stuff was just playful bullshit, just to save face. Like he didn’t mean it, was just making a joke, just to make it stay light and casual. That line, by itself, I didn’t think was so bad. Like a way to bow out gracefully—she’ll know he’s aware he has no chance, he’s just bullshitting with her and making a little joke out of it. > \*\* That’s exactly what it was. Like I said, standard response #117. \*\* > [@](#): > > But the other off-hand comments after that about her phone number—yeah, I thought that was too much. I took it to mean that he was still in the “lighthearted ‘I’m just bullshitting with you’” frame of mind, but really, he should have let it go and let her be in peace. On the other hand, _why_ was she _continuing_ to down and chat at his table when she had a free moment? What was that all about? > \*\* And now I’m beginning to suspect there’s a psychic on the board. The whole point there being that I tried, got shot down, and that’s that. Now she’ll do the standard thing of smiling, bringing the drinks, and getting on with her night while I get on with mine. \*\* > [@](#): > > So, then when she gave him her number—well, obviously he did not expect that. Which means that he didn’t think he had a chance after hearing about the boyfriend. Which means that he _was_ just bullshitting and (at least in his own mind) not being serious with her. Even though, in her mind, she’s thinking, “Oh, no, not another guy hitting on me.” (But once again, _why_ did she keep sitting down at his table to chat?) > \*\* It IS Jeanne Dixon. That’s really the whole thing. If she hadn’t kept sitting down and all that, it would have been the standard waitress/customer relationship. But once she kept it up, I figured, \*hell, maybe I \*\*do \*_have a shot there. May as well try_. \*\* > [@](#): > > And I think she was way out of line to give him the phone number. These things work both ways—if she was really weary of him and thought he was a jerk, just Let It Go. Like he really should have done earlier. Just let it go. But she didn’t do that. That was a mean, bitchy thing to do. \*\* Exactly. Put down a ‘555’ number. Make it 911. Say you’d rather be eaten alive by Gummi Bears. But come on, a number? On the positive side, it was apparently her roomate’s psycho boyfriend who called me back. Then again, from the story I was told last night, the only way her life could get more tragic right now would be if her dog got hit by a bulldozer. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/89 "2003-07-02T13:56:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Priceguy \* > **OK, Merijeek was a jerk, the waitress was a bitch. Matter settled.** A pyrrhic victory is still a victory, right? Right? Sigh. -Joe (toss a chimp on the barbie) ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/90 "2003-07-02T14:00:44Z")
Ooohhh. You talked to her some more? Will you give the details? Seems like she gave you her real number. That doesn’t sound like someone who isn’t interested to me. The question is what, exactly, is she interested in: You, or stirring some shit up with her SO? Sounds like a fiesty one. Watch yourself. My father used to say “Women can get you into more trouble in 10 minutes then you can get ou of in 10 years.” Not the most progressive attitude, but a decent warning nonetheless . . . ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/91 "2003-07-02T14:11:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pedro \* > \*\*I have no interest in getting into a pissing match with you. \*\* Then I don’t understand why you keep posting. > [@](#): > > **You’re not worth the time it takes to take your posts paragraph by paragraph.** Jeez, that _was_ witty and original! Never in my life have I been so thoroughly destroyed by an opponent in a debate! I utterly yield to you, **Pedro**. > [@](#): > > **I do find your atitude demeaning to women.** Yes, we men that take no for an answer are really horrible. I understand women hate it when men listen to them. > [@](#): > > **A simple “no” works well enough.** “I have a boyfriend”. Translation: “no”. > [@](#): > > **Apparently Guin agrees with you.** **Guin** , **Bren\_Cameron** , **Jaade** , **CanvasShoes** , **Cerri** , **Lissa** , **pepperlandgirl** , **alice\_in\_wonderland** , **Zoe** , **Ferret Herder** … all women (I believe), all agreeing with me. I’m open to correction; if any women out there want drunk guys to keep hitting on them after they’ve said no, speak up. As for **Merijeek** , after re-reading the original post I realise that I was a bit harsh. The waitress did sit down with them and chat, which might make a joshing phone number question socially acceptable (hard for me to say; I wasn’t there). So this particular situation may not have been particularly heinous. Doesn’t change that no means, or should mean, no. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/92 "2003-07-02T14:33:20Z")
Like **yosemitebabe** said, that’s what I thought that had happened too. My vote still goes to nice guy. > [@](#): > > Say you’d rather be eaten alive by Gummi Bears. This one’s a keeper too. You should post more often **Merrijeek**. **Priceguy** : > [@](#): > > Then I don’t understand why you keep posting. Because I had just replied to another post addressed to me and I didn’t reply to yours. But generaly I just ignore those sentences that I find amusing. > [@](#): > > “I have a boyfriend”. Translation: “no”. First those were not the words she used. Second: translation? :rolleyes: Didn’t you just say you listened to them? It must be complicated some times keeping track of all the codewords. Third, he wasn’t abusive, rude or threatening. And she kept sitting down to chat. > [@](#): > > So this particular situation may not have been particularly heinous. Heinous? Hehe! There’s your problem right there, you said it yourself, you’re not even a woman and you are offended. You’re so wound up in your sophisticated ideals that you completely lost the middle ground. Don’t confuse persistence with aggressiveness. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/93 "2003-07-02T14:53:40Z")
> [@](#): > > if any women out there want drunk guys to keep hitting on them after they’ve said no, speak up. Neither her words nor her actions said no, and as it happened, he had accepted that she didn’t want to giver him her number, but her continued flirting with him may have weaken his impression of what she actually meant. I guess its convient for you to ignore her behaviour and her actions, but facts mean nothing if they disrupt your charge, right? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/94 "2003-07-02T14:56:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pedro \* > **First those were not the words she used. Second: translation? :rolleyes: Didn’t you just say you listened to them? It must be complicated some times keeping track of all the codewords.** Codewords? **Pedro** , if stupidity were money Bill Gates would be your butler. “How about a date some day?” “I don’t think my boyfriend would like that.” If you see that as code… I really don’t know what to say to you. As for the rest of your post, you grasped at a couple of straws and hoped no-one would notice that you came up short. Nice try. You still haven’t addressed the fact that virtually every woman who’s posted to this thread has agreed with me, which gives my argument a certain amount of weight, even if you pretend that it doesn’t. Also, “sophisticated” is usually something you want to say about yourself, not your opponents. It’s not an insult, as you seem to think. By the way, why are you still in this “pissing match” with me? On preview: **TwistOfFate** , I have acknowledged that this particular situation may not have been particularly heinous. The general attitude of not taking no for an answer is still utterly assholicious for several reasons. And yes, her words did say no. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/95 "2003-07-02T14:59:53Z")
> [@](#): > > And yes, her words did say no. No, they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/96 "2003-07-02T15:23:31Z")
you keep using the word “heinous” as if his actions were in someway damaging. They weren’t in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/97 "2003-07-02T15:23:53Z")
> [@](#): > > By the way, why are you still in this “pissing match” with me? Quite right, I already said all that I wanted to say. I didn’t mean to criticise your ideals. It’s quite nice that you’re not “pushy” but you just went overboard. It was just a jab because of your caveman comment, such clever lines are beneath you but then again obviously your talents lay somewhere else other than playful chat with women. I will read the female posts you mention more carefuly, I just skimmed them before. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/98 "2003-07-02T15:33:49Z")
> [@](#): > > And yes, her words did say no. Gah! Do women not speak English? ‘No’ means no. ‘I have a boyfriend’ means that the speaker has a boyfriend. There is a difference between these two sentiments. Ladies, is it truly so hard to say what you mean? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/99 "2003-07-02T15:43:00Z")
**TwistOfFate** , I said that this particular situation was _not_ particularly heinous. Not. NOT. **dalovindj** and **robertliguori** , “I don’t think my boyfriend would like that” means no. How much clearer can it be? She’s trying to let you down easy. Return the favour and take the hint. “Aren’t you the guy who was stalking Lynda Carter?” “I believe the term is ‘courting’. The restraining order says ‘no, no’, but the eyes say ‘yes, yes’.” **Pedro** , I notice the thinly veiled jab, but since I do not rest my manhood on my ability to bullshit women into bed, I don’t mind. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432/100 "2003-07-02T15:50:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Ladies, is it truly so hard to say what you mean? In all fairness, it is understandable that in certain circumstances (such as a waitress being nice for tips), and in circumstances for women (and men) to avoid escallating a situation. Tact is a wonderful quality. However, from the OP’s outlining of the situation, it would appear that it wasn’t a “no means no” situation. A thought occurred to me. If the waitress was pissed off at her roommate, and wanted to get her in trouble, could she have used the oppertunity presented to get the roommate in trouble with her boyfriend, she could have given the OP her friends name and her number, so that when he rang looking for her and got the boyfriend, it would create a situation. Just a wild conspiracy theory. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-whine-about-the-evil-of-the-fairer-sex/185432.md?page=6)